Unlocking Your God-Given Purpose
In this engaging conversation, JR from BrushFires Ministry shares valuable insights on the importance of community, collaboration, and understanding one's God-given purpose in life. He discusses his personal journey to entrepreneurship, which includes the various experiences that shaped his path and the lessons learned along the way. JR opens up about the challenges faced in the early years of business, including the obstacles and setbacks that tested his resolve and determination, as well as the strategies he employed to overcome these hurdles. Furthermore, he introduces the unique program developed to help individuals discover their purpose through comprehensive assessments that are designed to guide them in identifying their strengths and passions. The conversation emphasizes the critical need for churches to implement effective purpose discovery processes that can support their congregations. JR also highlights the importance of being prepared for the upcoming harvest of souls who are seeking guidance and support in their lives, ensuring that communities are ready to embrace and nurture those who are on their journey of faith and self-discovery.
Transcript
My guest is John J.R.
Keith:rennie.
Keith:As the founder of a 37 year old business software company, he thought he was going to ride off into the sunset and retire.
Keith: All that changed in: Keith:Just like God has led him to do with his.
Keith:We welcome John to the podcast.
Keith:Well John, welcome to the podcast this morning.
Keith:How you doing?
John:I'm doing great, Keith.
John:How are you?
Keith:That's good.
Keith:I'm glad to have you on.
Keith:Love to talk about this topic.
Keith:So we're going to jump in with my favorite question.
Keith:My guest is what is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
John:Wow.
John:So I'm going to go on.
John:That just comes to my mind first of all, with regards to business and it was from a owner of a financial company and we were talking about management, so forth.
John:And I remember telling him I was never going to own my own company.
John:Be careful about the things that you that you say out there.
John:Anyway, he goes, figure out what you do best and then surround yourself with the people that do what you cannot do.
John:And that I have learned and I've used that in ministry.
John:I've used it in business all my life since then.
John:Because we are built for community and there are things that other people bring that we absolutely have to have.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:And it's so true because I did that in ministry too.
Keith:I would surround myself with people who did things I didn't do well because I was like the vision person.
Keith:But I didn't like doing the other detail part of that strategy part.
Keith:But I also wanted different diversity of thought around me because if it's just my idea, in my mind, it's brilliant.
Keith:But it may not be as brilliant as I think it is.
Keith:It could do some refining.
Keith:So sometimes other people around me help to make those ideas I thought were brilliant actually work.
John:Yeah, it's exactly that.
John:In fact, one of our assessments is called the Motivator Role assessment.
John:And we do this exercise where we have five people that are gifted in each one of those five areas.
John:And then we present a new challenge to the panel and you watch it just sort of blossom through the whole process as one person.
John:It's like a relay race, hands it off to the next.
John:It's a very cool thing to see happen.
John:And it's how we're created to work.
John:It's the body of Christ is not a Metaphor.
John:It's a blueprint.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:Not a metaphor, but a blueprint.
Keith:Not even my new favorite piece of advice.
Keith:Did you market that or is it like up for a grade?
John:No, it's not marketed, but you can.
John:There's a donation page on our site.
John:You're welcome to contribute as much and often as you want.
Keith:All right, keep that in mind.
Keith:So tell us your story about how you went to found your own business and what motivated you to start it.
John:Well, to start the business was I was.
John:I found myself in programming by really just the grace of God, and I excelled at it.
John:It was.
John:I was a natural to it.
John:And I was able to pick up concepts and to connect with people and take their thoughts and their ideas and actually make it into code and bring it to life.
John:And I was working at a company in California where the owner, to be quite honest, was a bit of a.
John:What's a nice way of putting it?
John:Nutcase.
John:That way.
John:He was an atheist, he was an Enran devotee, and he just was not.
John:Was not a warm person.
John:And he and I had a falling out.
John:We'll just put it that way.
John:And I called another employee who had just left about four or five months prior to him.
John:And just because I needed to get my head right, because this guy was just, you know, I.
John:I couldn't understand him.
John:He did.
John:Wasn't making any kind of sense to me.
John:And so I went over to my friend Philip's office.
John:I was, you know, talking with him, and he showed me what he was doing.
John:And he was writing this brand new product.
John:We hadn't named it yet, but he was writing this brand new product that, that was worlds beyond where our.
John:The.
John:Our prior employer's product was.
John:And it's for distribution, manufacturing accounting packages.
John:And I.
John:I made a commitment that, all right, I'm not going to work for this psychopath anymore.
John:At least I'm good.
John:I'm on salary.
John:He's getting 40 hours of my time.
John:That's it.
John:Not a minute more.
John:But every one of those 10 or 15 hours of overtime that I would work.
John:Normally, I would just go over to Phillips and help him with his project and develop it.
John:And one Saturday we were working together and he goes, you know, we can make a business out of this.
John:And I go, philip, dude, you're single.
John:You've got no responsibilities.
John:I got a wife, a mortgage, I got three kids.
John:You know, if we're going to do this, you got to be all in.
John:And it was about a month later, on a Saturday, we were working together.
John:He reached his hand out and he goes, if you want to do this, I'm all in.
John:And I was like, okay, now what?
John:I then, because we didn't have any income coming in from that software that we were developing, and it was still years away.
John:It was still at least two years away from release, I went to all my current clients at my current employer, and I said, you know, hey, this is what I'm doing.
John:You're welcome to come with me.
John:I'll continue to support you at the same rates.
John:Everything's.
John:Nothing's changed.
John:And every one of my clients went with me.
John:And over the course of the next year and a half, every employee that had I had hired at the other company.
John:Now there's no buffer between me and the psychopath owner.
John:And they were all rubbing him the wrong way.
John:And so they're calling me going, hey, Junior, what's going on?
John:This is, you know, this guy's nuts.
John:I go, yeah, come over and see what we're doing.
John:And Slowly but surely, 100% of all the employees I had hired and trained were now my employees.
John:And 90% of the entire client base was ours.
John:And it.
John:And it really.
John:It didn't have to work that way because I.
John:I liked where I was working, and it was safe and it had great potential.
John:But the owner just chased us all out.
Keith:As you started this new business, I'm curious, what were some of the things that you experienced in the early years in terms of challenges, and how did you overcome those.
John:In hindsight?
John:So hard work was not a problem for me because I've got a family to provide for.
John:And, you know, I was.
John:That part was easy.
John:The difficult part was balancing the family and the development of the business.
John:Software takes a lot of time to develop, and it was mostly just Philip and I.
John:We brought in another programmer at a later date when we had something that we could be replicated.
John:But we were working till 2, 3 in the morning, six days a week.
John:The only day I took off was Sunday to go to church and to be with my family.
John:And then it would be back, you know, 16 hour days, you know, after that and so forth.
John:And so it was that balance of being pulled out of my family's life, really, after two years of that.
John:Keith, when I came back, it was like, where do I fit?
John:My wife has very effectively taken on all the responsibilities about managing the house and, you know, and the kids are, you know, dad's been absent for two years.
John:You know, how does that happen?
John:And that was the hardest Part was to figure out that balance there because my wife was completely supportive of what we were doing.
John:But it was really challenging trying to figure out how that all worked.
John:And I just, on our website, I give God the glory because he was holding things together behind the scenes for us.
John:That, that we, that, that I needed that because I was so all in with the business that I had nothing left for my family.
John:And I paid the price for that because there's a, there's a disconnect from some of my kids that I've had to try to rebuild and to, you know, try to regain that.
Keith:When you think, I mean, I hear you talk about you developed a program.
Keith:My first thought is there's so many programs out there.
Keith:How do you know first of all that you're on the right path with a program that is going to be something that you can invest in.
Keith:And then once you do that, how do you get the word out that, hey, we got this great new program where it's just so much out there in the industry.
John:Well, it's sort of interesting.
John:I'm running into the exact same problem right now in brush fires with our assessment workshop program.
John:So I'm still figuring this out, apparently.
John:So back in the day, software, this is in the late 80s when we were doing this.
John:So software was more of a, a cottage industry.
John:Like now if you wanted to buy cabinets, you would go to Home Depot and there's these prefab cabinets.
John:But there was a day that you had to go to a cabinet maker.
John:Same thing with software.
John:And that was the environment that we came in.
John:We didn't have a lot of competition.
John:Microsoft SAP into it were not in our marketplace at that time.
John:So we had a small group of sales.
John:Back then, the real profit driver was the hardware.
John:I mean, people don't understand this, but a 20 meg drive, which is less than a fraction of what you have on your phone would cost $40,000.
John:These things were really expensive.
John:And so the software was one of the cheaper parts of the, of the overall offering.
John:And there weren't a lot of us out there that had products.
John:So you worked with a hardware distributor and then they brought you in on the appropriate deals.
John:And that's what we did for the first couple of deals.
John:And then it was references from our existing clients converting some of our existing clients off of their old software onto our new.
John:It just took time to really establish that word of mouth and that, that connection within the industry that we were servicing.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:Yeah, I could imagine how difficult it.
Keith:So you Got a new venture now.
Keith:True purpose.
Keith:Tell us about that.
John:Yeah, so brush fires Ministry is where we help believers discover their God given purpose and design.
John:And the concept is this.
John:The body of Christ is not a metaphor, it's actually a blueprint.
John:You need to figure out where you fit and what kind of tool you are.
John:When God wants to pick up a tool to do a certain job so you can say, yeah, that's a job for me.
John:I'm, I'm, I'm ready for that, I'm gifted for that, and so forth.
John:And so we use a combination of psychometric assessments, uniquely all created by born again believers.
John:Nobody else can claim that as far as I know.
John:And we marry that with the curriculum that is, that was developed by us to show how believers are wired in certain ways and so that they can start to say yes to those areas that God wants them to say yes with.
John:Simultaneously, we're showing them how their design, not only are they gifted in a certain direction, but they also have attributes that are going to rub other people the wrong way.
John:And they have, and they have certain characteristics that the enemy will exploit to create division, division in the church, division in your marriage, division, division in all of your relationships at work.
John:And so the enemy understands human design way better than we do.
John:And he knows how to tempt you in a way that is best suited for you.
John:For instance, there is an impact.
John:One of our assessments is called impact style, and there's four of them and one of them is persuader.
John:And the persuader is a person that has the gift to be able to communicate and to be able to get information out there and to tell a story and so forth.
John:Typically you see this in salespeople, some lawyers, actually you see it in a lot of gifted pastors.
John:It's not the, it's not the act of selling, quote, unquote, that's evil.
John:It's how you're doing it and what's your motivation behind it.
John:So when a pastor is out there sharing the gospel, quote, unquote, promoting, selling what God has to offer free of charge, by the way, it doesn't cost you a penny.
John:That is a good use of that gift.
John:Now when a lawyer is using that gift of persuasion to deceive a jury, not good.
John:When a salesperson is using that for you to buy something that is not good for you or for your family, not good.
John:So these are giftings and callings that are in people's lives that can be misdirected by the enemy.
John:So we teach you that also so that you understand where your landmines are so you don't blow up your relationships, that you can take correction so that you can give other people grace when they are different than you.
John:And as we were saying earlier before we started the broadcast, that diversity in the best sense is what God wants for all of us.
John:He wants us to be able to work with people that are different than us because he's created them different than us.
John:And there's nothing wrong with how he created them.
John:Now, there could be something wrong with their behavior, but there's nothing wrong with how God created you.
John:That is perfect, what he gave you.
Keith:So I'm curious.
Keith:I've taken, I love taking assessments.
Keith:I'm not sure I think there's something wrong with me mentally, but I've taken almost every kind you could imagine.
Keith:Myers, Briggs.
Keith:I've taken Gallup.
Keith:I've taken the spiritual version of Gallup, the whole strength finder thing.
Keith:I've taken scores of spiritual online assessments.
Keith:And the thing you always notice is it may even, like you say, get close to who you are, but your, your, your process seems to kind of really come from a point place of maybe combining some of all those things into a spiritual framework and say, here's how God uniquely designed you.
Keith:I like the fact that you also give highlights of.
Keith:Here are the things that you may do that will annoy people because you know, every, everything you do, there's a, there's a good and a bad to that or a strength and a growth area for that.
Keith:And take it to the extreme, you can rub people the wrong way.
Keith:So tell us a little bit more about how this differs or is it very similar to spiritual gifts assessments.
John:Well, I think it really starts with the root because the gentleman that wrote the psychometric assessments has a degree from the Denver Seminary.
John:He is a born again believer and always wanted this for the church.
John:But in the 80s he brought it to the church and the church said, yeah, not interested.
John:So he brought it to the secular world and used it in private consulting with IBM and Coca Cola and Clorox.
John:And they gained the benefit of these assessments.
John:Now what the assessments do is they measure very well defined attributes of a human being.
John:One of the things that makes us unique, there aren't nine boxes that we try to fit you in.
John:There aren't, you know, you're a beaver or you're a golden retriever or a yellow or purple or whatever.
John:It's not that we measure a certain attribute of who you are.
John:And then during the design discovery meeting, coaching Process where we produce the purpose statement, we bring this all together under the guidance of the Holy Spirit to figure out what your purpose statement was.
John:Now I'll share you with you.
John: tement as it was developed in: John:I must strategically lead a gifted team to embrace the power of their God given design for long term positive results.
John:When I really took that to heart and I was sitting there going, all right, God, if this is what you called me to do, and joy is the, the outcome of obedience to God's calling in your life, all right, I guess I'm going to do this.
John:And at that point in time, he gave me the name of the ministry.
John:I mean, it literally just popped in my head, you're going to call it brush fires.
John:And then number two, it was like, all right, what part of that?
John:There's three aspects of that.
John:I'm going to strategically lead a team.
John:That's the, that's a part that we're really focused in now.
John:But the part I focused in on was getting people to embrace the power of the God given design.
John:Right.
John:I got the assessments.
John:That part I can figure out.
John:I guess I have to write the curriculum for the workshop.
John:So my purpose statement literally launched me into doing the brush fires ministry.
John:And it's you taking that understanding of how God's created you and you take it to God and you say, God, is this who you've created me to be?
John:He goes, yeah, that's what exactly what I created you to be.
John:All right, Lord, I'm going to start going off in that direction.
John:And please correct me, guide me, direct me, help me, empower me, surround me with the right people to be able to walk this out so that I can be faithful to the calling that you have in my life.
John:And that's the uniqueness of what we do here, is that every purpose statement is unique to that individual.
John:Just like your DNA is, just like your fingerprint is.
John:And when we are done, it's how do you serve other people?
John:My purpose statement is not how does junior get wealthy and you know, get his next Rolls Royce?
John:That's not that purpose statement.
John:My purpose statement is how do I serve?
John:Well, I serve by leading a team.
John:So building a team, leading a team, getting people to embrace the power of the God given design.
John:And that in itself will create long term positive results or good fruit.
John:And so we are focused in on those first two segments in the ministry.
John:Building the team, working with church leaders like yourself, working with Christian coaches throughout North America to be able to Spread this, these tools so that they can begin to activate the callings in God's children.
John:And Keith, we're in a time right now where that is needed more than it ever has been in our country.
Keith:No, I agree with you.
Keith:I'm hearing this and I'm thinking, as a pastor, if I'm really excited about this, what advice do you have?
Keith:How do I get started?
Keith:Because we get overwhelmed with.
Keith:This is great.
Keith:Do I bring this to my board?
Keith:Do I do this myself personally?
Keith:Do I become a coach?
Keith:In your experience, what's been the best entry point for churches who want to do this?
John:So it starts with.
John:It starts with the personal buy in.
John:I do not represent or promote anything that I do not have complete conviction in, because then that would be hypocritical of me and I would be manipulating people.
John:So the very first thing is you need to go through the program yourself.
John:Even though that you are a pastor, okay.
John:And you are walking in your purpose, quite likely you need to go through the process so that you can see how that works, so that it can be affirmed in your life.
John:In fact, oftentimes when I'm doing this with a church, I will say, all right, Keith, you're a walking in your purpose.
John:I assume you're married, Keith, is that right?
Keith:Yes.
John:Okay, so I'll say I want you and your wife both to go through the program, but I'm going to do the purpose statement for your wife so that, first of all, I don't know her.
John:She's not a public figure.
John:She is not somebody that is already, you know, in a pastor position.
John:I mean, maybe she is.
John:I don't know.
John:But you know, and so therefore, you can watch that process happen, watch it be confirmed as, you know, your wife, and then see how you can then take that and go, I can use that for my elders, I can use that for my deacons.
John:I can use that.
John:Once you've got that buy in that you can actually see that this is working, then the next thing is to train your leadership so that they have that same sort of understanding of the tool.
John:Now, certain people will gravitate quicker than others, but the idea is to be able to have a person take an assessment and to be able to look at that, analyze it, and to be able to project just by the basic analysis of a general direction that that person can go in.
John:Do they have counseling calling?
John:Do they have a leadership calling?
John:Do they have a public speaking calling?
John:Do they have a teaching calling?
John:Those are all types of things that you can see and then as they start, as you start coaching or mentoring these members of your church, you then take them through the design discovery meeting process and help work out a purpose statement with them.
John:We would work alongside your leadership team to get them to that place.
John:I'm happy to work with any member of your church, you know, be a leader, be it a congregant, whatever.
John:But I really want to work with your leadership so that your people can go to your people, so your lay people can go to your leaders and get the advice and mentoring and coaching so that they can be placed in the proper places in the body of Christ, in your ministry.
John:Or you might have, you might be a ministry incubator where you've got one leader after another that you can start launching ministries out one after the other.
John:I mean, wouldn't that be cool?
John:It would be cool, yeah.
John:So all those things are possible once you understand design.
John:And then we can build upon that based upon your callings or your needs.
Keith:So looking at your website, I notice you have the assessment on there.
Keith:So would a person begin by taking this, the assessment, and then buy the workbook and begin to work through that?
Keith:How would that work in terms of process?
John:So every, everybody that goes to brush fires, digital.com and registers as a new user gets four gifts from us free.
John:One of them is a free spiritual gifts assessment.
John:We always make that available to everybody free of charge.
John:The next step would be to either choose the entry level package or the premium level package.
John:The only difference between the two is that the premium level package includes the three hour design discovery meeting coaching session to help you develop that purpose statement.
John:But they all include the workshop videos, which.
John:The workshop videos makes the case to the lay people, the congregants in your church, that you do have a ministry.
John:God created you for a purpose.
John:You do have that.
John:And we make that case by pointing to scripture.
John:We make that case by using training exercises.
John:We use that case by showing them design attributes.
John:They also get the workbook that goes alongside that.
John:And then they get at least eight of the assessments.
John:If they do the premium package, they get 11.
John:And the.
John:And then the only difference is that if you get the premium level, we take you through that three hour coaching session which develops your purpose statement and gives you an understanding of your pros and cons of your design, the things that you should be striving towards, the areas that you need to begin to walk away from.
John:We had a brief conversation before we started the recording and you know, it sounds like you've got that creative aspect in you.
John:So managing something on an ongoing basis and being there to make sure that every I is dotted and T is crossed quite likely isn't your happy place.
Keith:No.
John:And so when, when a person is forced into areas that are not part of their design, they become less and less joyful because they're being used in the wrong way.
John:Just like, you know, using a hammer to put in a screw is not your best choice.
John:So these are, these are things that we would then say, all right, you need people in this area to take on these responsibilities so that you can stay focused in the area that God created you to be and be able to be the most effective tool in that area.
John:And that's part of that coaching process where we go through that.
John:We may also say, listen here, you are very, you're a very high thinker.
John:And so people are going to perceive you as being uncaring or not sympathetic or not empathetic.
John:You need to be aware of that because quite likely some of the words that come out of your mouth will sound uncaring and not sympathetic.
John:And if a fellow brother or sister comes up to you and goes, hey, Keith, the way that you said that to Mary, man, you need to make that right.
John:You need to humble yourself and recognize that that is a problem for you, a blind spot in your design, and you need to then go and make it right with that person.
John:Doc, surgeons get accused of having terrible bedside manner.
John:That would be an example of that, where they are great at what they do, but you don't want them talking to the patient's family in the process.
Keith:So telling Mary get over is probably not the best way to go.
Keith:All right, so if I wanted to do this, what is.
Keith:You talked about the two different levels.
Keith:What's the cost difference between those two for those who are thinking about it?
John:Okay, so the cost of the workshop, the assessments and the workbook, about 90 bucks plus shipping and taxes and fees to do the.
John:To add the three hour coaching session to that, it's 280, 290 plus taxes and fees.
John:And that gives you that entire coaching session.
John:So at the end of that, you know what your purpose statement is.
John:You can bring that to God and you can start walking in that direction.
John:The leadership programs are pretty much on a consulting hour basis.
John:I mean, there is basic assessments and other books that are part of that, but that varies between the number of leaders that we're training and the focus that you guys want us to take you in.
John:So there's a menu of choices that you could Say, yeah, we're just interested in wanting to know how the assessments portion of it work.
John:We don't want to do design discovery meeting training.
John:We just want to understand that if a person has this sort of calling in their life, you know, what does that look like in the broadest sense, so that we can start leading our people.
John:That would be a much simpler process than taking you to the next level, which would say, all right, this is how you do a design discovery meeting.
John:This is how that works.
John:This is the mindset that you need to come into that with.
John:That takes a lot more training and a lot more guidance on our part to be certified in that area.
Keith:So I know people who've taken assessments and they like, I don't know who I am.
Keith:If I take the assessment, I'm confused by the questions I go through.
Keith:And I'm still not sure convinced that's really who I am.
Keith:I know people take an Enneagram and go, I get like six different results from that, which.
Keith:So for someone who feels like, I think I'd love to do this, but am I sure this is gonna.
Keith:I can tell who.
Keith:If you're not quite sure who you are, you're not trying to answer questions.
Keith:How do you encourage someone who's maybe in that realm to say, this will help you to do that?
Keith:Because they really are seeking to find out what is their purpose, but they struggle with the assessments.
John:So what differentiates a psychometric assessment stay from Enneagram, which is.
John:I'm not a fan of the Enneagram.
Keith:Yeah, I'm not either, but yeah, yeah.
John:Yeah, not a fan anyhow.
John:But what differentiates us is that psychometric assessments have gone through third party testing and they're tested on reliability and validity.
John:So you don't get the certification of being a psychometric assessment without going through that third party testing.
John:Reliability says, does it reliably measure what the assessment is supposed to measure?
John:So your motivator role, what motivates you to be involved in an effort?
John:Are you on the creative side or on your.
John:Or are you on the system and structure side of things?
John:Or maybe in the middle as a, as a developer.
John:So that's a reliability part of it.
John:And then the third or the second part of that is validity.
John:The concept of psychometrics is, and this is what I love about these assessments because it really points to a creator.
John:It says that what you were designed for doesn't change from 18 to 48 to 88.
John:What God has called you to is always your calling.
John:How you apply that calling could look differently, but it's always your calling.
John:If you have a leadership calling on your life, guess what?
John:You can't avoid being placed in leadership positions.
John:It just is a natural vacuum that you get sucked into.
John:So that's the number one thing is that there is a real small sliver.
John:So when you said Myers Briggs disc, I believe the CliftonStrengths fund is also certified as psychometric.
John:Those are psychometric assessments.
John:So all the others enneagram.
John:All the others, not so much.
John:So that's number one.
John:Number two is that the type of questions that are asked here are questions that are not, they are not overtly leading you in a certain direction.
John:You got five like say motivator role.
John:We'll give you five role choices of which one really interests you.
John:You're building a house.
John:Do you want to be the hands on to make sure that it's working?
John:Do you want to be the architect that's designing it?
John:I mean these are questions that people can say oh yeah, well if I was building a house, this is the part that I would want to play.
John:And so they are questions that are relatable certainly throughout North America because they are consistent with all of our human experiences in this part of the world.
John:So that's the difference.
John:There is that psychometric assessment, the ddm, the design discovery meeting, coaching session at the end pulls all that together.
John:And we always require that the client has an advisor with them.
John:This oftentimes is a spouse or a parent or close friend that knows you really well because they will see things in you because it's not in them.
John:They will see things in you that they've always seen but couldn't put to words.
John:And when we go through that process and they go, yes, that's you, they, they give you that confirmation.
John:And we don't know these people from, you know, Keith, you and I just met, literally just met the advisor.
John:And the clients are the same way.
John:We don't have any history with most of these people.
John:So when I go into those sessions, I mean I bathe it in prayer and I, I plead openly God, you know, that I don't know what I'm doing here, that whatever comes out of here that is good is going to be from you.
John:So guard every thought that goes through my head and every word that comes out of my mouth so that it would be honoring and helping your child find their purpose.
John:So yeah, we are really different from that sense is that we are ultimately looking for how do you serve other people?
John:Not how you serve Yourself.
John:And we are asking God to reveal to his child who he created them to be.
John:And it is done.
John:It's more akin to a word of knowledge than it is to a typical coaching session because we want God to be not only present but actively involved in helping his child figure out who he created them to be so that he can, they can be obedient to their calling.
Keith:I have to say this is, this is an exciting process you have here and I'm very thankful that you came up with that.
Keith:I really do think we, that is the one thing that I've always driven me in my ministry is how do I help my people unlock the potential that God has in them.
Keith:And it's always been a constant desire of mine so that as many ways we can possibly do that to get people to, to live in their God given purpose to me is exciting.
John:I was listening to a testimony of a Satanist that, that he's, he was a ex Satanist.
John:So he had been converted to Christianity and he was being interviewed about as when he was a Satanist.
John:What was his reaction or his, his interaction when he came across a Christian?
John:And he goes, first of all, if Christians knew the power and authority that was walking next to them, they would never fear anything.
John:And the guy goes, what do you mean?
John:Every time we saw a real Christian walk by, he had two angels on either side of them.
John:Every time they were driving the car, there was an angel in that car with them.
John:If they understood that and we were fearful of that, we were fearful of being in that environment because we didn't want the angels after us.
John:So when God's children understand that their relationship as adopted children of the Most High, God makes them royalty and that they have a calling on their life that is powerful and they were designed to be warriors, not victims.
John:When they really get that concept.
John:Oh Keith, we will change our world, we will change our communities because God, the whole point of Christ coming to earth was not for us to get to heaven.
John:Yeah, that's a nice bonus.
Keith:Right?
John:And you know, and I, you know, streets of gold and all that stuff sounds really cool.
John:I need help here now.
John:I need, how do I deal with my epileptic son?
John:How do I deal with the, the conflicts that come up through ministry?
John:I need help now as a adopted son into the, to the family of God.
John:We are royalty.
John:And when we start walking in that not to be served, but to serve others.
John:And we bring that authority and that power that God has in all of his children to his purposes and his agenda.
John:Oh, game.
John:I got to tell you, in the last few years, I've, I've been, you know, in churches or walking through different areas, and every once in a while I'll see a complete stranger look at me and they will give me this look like concern.
John:It's somebody I don't even know.
Keith:Right.
John:And, and after hearing this testimony from the Satanist, I'm going, oh, you see the angels that are with me, you sense, you sense the presence of God as I walked in that room.
John:And we have that.
John:We have that.
John:And it needs to be understood that when we.
John:Romans 8:28.
John:All things work together good for those who love God, for those who are called according to his purposes.
John:We share that, that, that passage, but we emphasize it in a different way.
John:For those who love God, for those who are called according to his purposes.
John:All things work together for good.
John:Align your will with God's agenda for your life.
John:Love your Lord and Savior.
John:Trust your Father as He guides you and leads you.
John:All things are going to work together for good as you are being used to accomplish his will here on earth.
John:Now, it doesn't mean that you want to have a Lamborghini and God's going to just give it to you.
John:That's, that's a whole different theology that I, I don't condone.
Keith:Right.
John:It's if you love God and you are aligning your will with his purposes for your life, all things are going to work together for good.
John:It may not always look good, but inside with the joy of the Lord, you will experience as good.
John:Just read Paul's epistles.
John:That guy figured it out.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:So I love to ask my guest this question, John, because this is a phenomenal conversation.
Keith:But as you think about the impact you're making now, what do you want your legacy to be?
John:I want.
John:I, I have not experienced this yet, Keith, but I think I am so close.
John:I want to walk into a church where 100 of the work is being done by 80% of the people, that they are all so on fire for the Lord and that they are spawning this ministry and that ministry.
John:And they are, they are taking the captives and making them free.
John:They are evangelizing, they are teaching, they are building ministries.
John:I want to go and be part and of that experience that that is my legacy.
John:And I don't want just one church.
John:I want dozens and hundreds and thousands of churches that I can walk into and I can see what God's birth in me and through me, paying out in good fruit in people's lives, dude.
John:If I can get that before I say hello to my Savior face to face, I will feel like I have accomplished exactly what I was created to do.
Keith:I've actually seen that in a church.
Keith:It was early on in my ministry.
Keith:It was one of the churches we were going to was a teaching church where 80% of the ministries were going on.
Keith:I mean, 100% by 80% of the people.
Keith:And it was funny listening to the pastor talk about.
Keith:He says, there are so many things happening here, I have no idea what they all are because people are living out their God given mission.
Keith:One guy was a doctor.
Keith:He started a clinic in a poor neighborhood.
Keith:He was doing that because that was his giftedness.
Keith:There were just so many ministries that church had started.
Keith:And I was like, this is what I.
Keith:And so I saw vision.
Keith:I actually experienced it.
Keith:I'm like, I want to be that, that church too.
Keith:I never got there before I left the ministry, but I had that same desire.
Keith:I'm like, man, this would just be so awesome to be part of a church where you can't even control all the things that God is doing through his people.
Keith:Because we don't want to do that.
Keith:We just want to see how God's impacting the community.
Keith:So I have seen it.
John:Good.
John:Well, then maybe you and I can see it together one day.
John:Because that would be my, that would be my hope, is that, that we were able to have that kind of impact, to allow the church in this century to be what God intended it to be.
John:And I got to tell you, I really believe that Christ is very close to coming back to this world.
John:And one of the reasons why I think brush fires was created is if that happens, if Christ comes back in my lifetime, that means that there's going to be a lot of turmoil, a lot of anguish, a lot of fear, a lot of.
John:Because the church grows through oppression and conflict.
John:I mean, that's just the way it spread in the first church and that's the way it always is.
John:So when those challenges come, the non believers are going to be going to the church saying, all right, the world's gone crazy.
John:It doesn't make sense to me anymore.
John:Church, what do you have?
John:And that harvest Keith is waiting for us.
John:I see my role as being the guy in the marketplace going, hey, it's 9:00, I need you out in the fields.
John: Hey, it's: John:I need you out in the fields.
John:Hey, it's 3:00 in the afternoon.
John:I need you out in the Fields.
John:Hey, it's seven o'clock at night.
John:I need you out in the fields.
John:That's my job, is to help them find out where they are and get them connected to that ministry.
John:Because the amount of people that are going to be dispersed and hurt and suffering and frightful, the church is not ready for that harvest.
John:But we need to get ready for that.
John:And that means that people need to be raised up as teachers and evangelists and counselors and all these things, right?
Keith:So where can people find Brush Fire Ministries and get connected with this new tool you have and learn more about it.
John:So go to brushfires-digital.com, register as a new user and we will give you the free Spiritual Gifts assessment along with those two books.
John:The next step is on your homepage, your start page with your name on it.
John:There'll be a section that says packages, recommended packages.
John:I would recommend going with the premium package.
John:Sign up for that.
John:Make sure that you get your purpose statement.
John:Do the assessments.
John:Watch the eight sessions of videos.
John:Each session is about an hour to an hour and a half long.
John:Do the homework.
John:I mean, be all in this process.
John:And then once you've done that workshop and you've done all the assessments, then schedule your DDM with us and let us get you to the place where you can see where God is leading you.
John:And then trust him, Trust him and trust him.
Keith:Well, Junior, thanks so much for sharing and thanks so much for the tool you've come up with.
Keith:And may we tap into our God given purpose and be ready when that harvest comes.
Keith:We know it's coming and the church needs to be ready.
Keith:So thank you for what you do.
John:Amen.
John:Oh no, Keith, this has been a real pleasure.
John:Your heart seems to be very much in line with some of the callings that are on my life.
John:And so I don't think this is going to be our last discussion.
John:I got a feeling that we're going to be talking beyond this.
John:So maybe you and I will walk into that church together where we can see 100% of the work being done by 80% of the people.
Keith:I'd love to see that.
Keith:Blessings on what you do, Junior.
John:Thank you, Keith.
