From St. Louis to Global Impact: JD Mass’ Journey of Change
In this powerful episode, host Keith Haney sits down with JD Mass to explore his unique story of growing up in one of America’s most segregated cities, St. Louis. JD shares his experiences working closely with his childhood friend, international sensation Nelly, during the early years of his career. His journey then led him to an international community of black ex-patriots, where he helped build a culture focused on health, peace, and sharing.
With a degree in organizational psychology, JD delves into the development of culture and the profound impact of racism and political and economic powers.
Tune in to discover how JD’s experiences and insights can inspire you to foster a more humane and loving world, breaking down barriers and redefining success and authenticity.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
My guest today, JD Mass is an entrepreneur and social advocate with a diverse background in business and community engagement.
Host:He's always had an entrepreneurial spirit, starting a tennis teaching organization with his college coach.
Host:After graduating with a degree in finance, he played a pivotal role in structuring Nelly's early business ventures, including Apple Bottom Jeans and Deadery Entertainment.
Host:JD Mass is also a founder of Race for what?
Host:An organization dedicated to addressing racial issues and fostering understanding and collaboration among different communities.
Host:His work focuses on creating meaningful dialogue and actionable steps toward racial equity and justice.
Host:We welcome JD to the podcast.
Host:Well, JD welcome to the podcast.
Host:How you doing today?
JD Mass:Doing well, thank you.
Host:Good to have you on.
JD Mass:Good to be here.
Host:Good to have.
Host:Good to have you on.
Host:I love to ask my guests this question, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
JD Mass:Oh, wow.
JD Mass:Best piece of advice I've ever received is don't stop being all or nothing.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:You know, if it doesn't all go your way, then there's nothing good that come out of it.
JD Mass:And it's that kind of spoiled kid approach.
JD Mass:See what you can get from something and how you can build from there versus just if it doesn't go your way, you start seeing the only the negative things that happen.
Host:Yeah, the take your ball and go home thing doesn't work out too well in life.
JD Mass:Yeah, no.
Host:I'm curious about.
Host:I read your bio and I was fascinated by some of the things you've done, but kind of share your background and what inspired you to start race for what?
JD Mass:So my parents purposely wanted to raise me as a white child around black folks, around black community.
JD Mass:An experience that they didn't get to have.
JD Mass:And so through that process, we moved when I was four years old, next to a family that became my best friends.
JD Mass:The family really brought me in.
JD Mass:It was grandmother, mother, aunt, uncles, and my friends and their brothers.
JD Mass:And so I became one with them.
JD Mass:And through having friendships with them, living in St.
JD Mass:Louis at the time, it started to become harder to have white friends.
JD Mass:I got introduced to more and more of their friends who became my friends.
JD Mass:And growing up, all of my friends, you know, close friends were, are still black folks.
JD Mass:And so I got to experience how I was treated when with them.
JD Mass:I got to experience how I was treated when not with them.
JD Mass:And some of the, from police runnings to how we were treated at stores, it just sparked my curiosity.
JD Mass:More so than wanting to just fight it and be angry about it.
JD Mass:I wanted to understand why.
JD Mass:I really wanted to know why do people Think this way.
JD Mass:And so my father, well, read Cornel West, Eric Michael Dyson, you know, Noam Chomsky, all these different people talking about kind of systemically why I wanted to understand emotionally and what, what not why.
JD Mass:And through my journey, I ended up with a community of African Hebrew Israelites in Israel who really put intentionality behind creating a village and a community of peace and of love and of health.
JD Mass:And I learned how much intentions have to go into that.
JD Mass:And so throughout my journey, as I started to develop or got involved in organizational psychology, it was really to learn how culture is developed.
JD Mass:And from all of that, I put together what became race for what?
Host:I love that.
Host:So you're from St.
Host:Louis.
Host:I noticed in your, in your bio and connection that somehow you ran across Nelly and started working with him.
Host:So tell us the story of how you met him and got involved with him.
JD Mass:So I'm not only from St.
JD Mass:Louis, I got a shout out.
JD Mass:I'm from ucity University City.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:The greatest place on earth.
JD Mass:And so inside of St.
JD Mass: place, University city was a: JD Mass:Nelly moved into our community about half a mile to a mile away from me when we were in the seventh grade.
JD Mass:And as I said, my best friend, his name is Shondo.
JD Mass:My best friend Shondo and him played basketball and started to develop a relationship.
JD Mass:And around in between eighth grade and ninth grade, going into high school, Nelly started to come over to my place and hang out more and more.
JD Mass:And then we developed a close bond.
JD Mass:So he's on the COVID of my book, is my prom picture with my best friends and I.
JD Mass:And if you see it, he's the one kneeling next to me.
JD Mass:And so we were best friends through my college experience.
JD Mass:And as I was coming out of college, his career started to blow up and he wanted to do entrepreneurial things.
JD Mass:I was, had an entrepreneurial background and he invited me in to be his business manager, really to develop some of his entrepreneurial endeavors.
JD Mass: ed well before then, but from: Host:That's cool.
Host:I spent some time in St.
Host:Louis too, actually.
Host:My church was in Walnut Park.
JD Mass:Okay.
Host:So we were right next to Ferguson and that whole area lived in Belfount.
Host:Neighbors for a little bit.
JD Mass:Okay.
JD Mass:Yeah.
Host:Know the area well.
JD Mass:Speaking my language.
Host:Yeah.
Host:So I'm Curious as you talk about how those personal experiences really shaped your views on race and social justice.
Host:I think today people are so divided when it comes to race.
Host:What insights?
Host:Because I get this question all the time, you know, what can we do to have a productive conversation about some of the difficult issues in society without triggering people so that we never really get to talking about how we can solve things?
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:So let's be resolutionaries, as a friend of mine would say.
JD Mass:I think one of the problems with our ability to discuss race is that we're starting from an end point or a middle point.
JD Mass:And we're never starting from how did this begin?
JD Mass:Why did we choose to develop systems of racism?
JD Mass:Why was race such an important factor?
JD Mass:And so I go back to having learned from the Hebrew Israelites and seen intentional community and studied how cultures are developed.
JD Mass:I looked at what was going on in this northern region where the truth is we get all of our resources that our bodies need from the earth and the planet.
JD Mass:What was going on in this northern region where less melanated skin, not white, right?
JD Mass:Because white is a painting color or whatnot, we have less melanin in our skin and start to deal with some of those truths.
JD Mass:In this scarcity area, because of less sun, which we needed at that time, there's less resources.
JD Mass:And so we had to go out and get our resources.
JD Mass:But when you have a scarcity, as you see in inner cities, as you see in how the Holocaust was created, creating scarcity tends to create competition.
JD Mass:And competition, one of it led to the race, right?
JD Mass:The race of England to try and beat Spain in colonizing, or France and Germany in colonizing, that race led to, oh, well, we can also see a difference in people skin tone.
JD Mass:We can develop a race, so to speak, of whiteness, of blackness, of brownness, and easily identify.
JD Mass:You're not like me, but we're in this competition.
JD Mass:And if you look at our economic systems, we created an economic system based on the idea that there is a scarcity of resources on the planet.
JD Mass:And therefore we should do what we can to control, protect and, and harvest all of these resources for ourselves, instead of recognizing really there's an abundance of resources on the planet, we all can share.
JD Mass:And so you have these differences in cultures, but we're not taught about any of those cultures.
JD Mass:We're only taught about how great we are.
JD Mass:And so if we don't start to untangle and look at the why and the factors that led to this, it's hard to even correct the situation because we don't know we're shooting blind in a dark room.
Host:So you mentioned a term I think you probably need to unpack for the audience and I missed the last part of Hebrew.
Host:What would you say it was again?
JD Mass:Israelite.
JD Mass:So African Hebrew Israelite.
Host:So explain that term for people who may not be familiar with it.
JD Mass:So African Hebrew Israelite.
JD Mass:If you look at the location of where Israel is, and mind you, the country of Israel was, we say it's like a biblical history.
JD Mass:Israel was never a land, it was a, it was a person.
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:They named biblically named a person Israel.
JD Mass:It was a concept.
JD Mass:The people of Israel or the Israelites were the followers of this concept.
JD Mass:So for us to now create it as a land, we chose where Jerusalem is, which was an actual city, but that is in North East Africa.
JD Mass:And it's important to say that, right.
JD Mass:Northeast Africa is not the Middle East.
JD Mass:It's literally you can walk to Egypt, which we all explain is Africa.
JD Mass:So to think about it, hundreds and thousands of years ago, this is where racism really kind of started.
JD Mass:To the idea that all of these people, Moses and Abraham and all of these factors and Yeshua, who became the stories of Jesus all being white men in Northeast Africa just doesn't biologically make sense.
JD Mass:And Right.
JD Mass:And so it was, it might have been some lighter skinned folks there, for sure.
JD Mass:It was people of all different shades throughout the history, but they really weren't a bunch of European looking like folks occupying that land at the time.
JD Mass:And so African, Hebrew, Israelites, Hebrew being the language of the Israelite people.
JD Mass:And those folks who have disseminated from that area were probably of darker skin.
JD Mass:And so several groups of black Americans have come to recognize, hey, we're probably of that and traced the lineage of the slave trade and of everything else to show, hey, we're probably of the lineage of the Hebrew Israelite people that the biblical time is about.
JD Mass:And this group followed by Ben Ami went to Israel themselves and said, hey, we're here on the laws of return.
JD Mass:We want to establish our home here and reestablish a community based on the biblical teachings.
Host:So how does that understanding of the, of the history of racism impact the way you deal with race in America?
JD Mass:So one it, it makes me understand that race is a competition.
JD Mass:And so a lot of us in.
JD Mass:And it stems from a zero sum game, right, that zero, that scarcity thing, right.
JD Mass:And I do this in every interview.
JD Mass:I hold up this glass of water for those that are just listening.
JD Mass:If you.
JD Mass:And I think this is the only water we have left Then it's a zero sum game.
JD Mass:Every time I take a sip, you, that's a sip you can't get.
JD Mass:And so in a zero sum game develops this level of competition.
JD Mass:And so for white folks, often we fear the dismantling of racism as losing something that we have, right?
JD Mass:And there's a finite amount of this, so we got to protect it.
JD Mass:And we're in this.
JD Mass:And it's often even less about wanting harm on you.
JD Mass:But this fear of not having our privileges and our.
JD Mass:And our control over these resources, and for so many of us, we've been weaponized in that sense because there's only really a few people controlling all of this crap anyway now.
JD Mass:And.
JD Mass:But the one things that we have is our understanding that we're superior or our greatness or whatever, you know.
JD Mass:And so I try to help untangle some of that psychology.
JD Mass:I also approach it from how much manipulation goes in to this.
JD Mass:If we're going to create a systems that say, whiteness, having less melanin in my skin, being less able to be out in sun on the earth's surface than someone with more melanin in their skin makes me superior.
JD Mass:That's a lie.
JD Mass:And now I have to create an entire system based on lies.
JD Mass:And now we call that, you know, sales and marketing, right?
JD Mass:I mean, really, there's so much lying that goes on, and it doesn't have to be like a blatant lie that, no, I have more melanin than you, Keith.
JD Mass:That's a blatant lie.
JD Mass:But to not even talk about so much of.
JD Mass:So much of our lies is really on what we don't learn and what we don't know that harms us.
JD Mass:That I'm trying to help untangle some of these things.
JD Mass:And that's been my approach.
JD Mass:How can we start to untangle it?
JD Mass:I don't want to just fight somebody because they're a racist.
JD Mass:I want them to see that they and I share certain aspects of life.
JD Mass:We all want food, we all want shelter.
JD Mass:We're concerned about our family.
JD Mass:We want proper education.
JD Mass:We want these certain things.
JD Mass:We want opportunities.
JD Mass:We want.
JD Mass:We want to enjoy sports.
JD Mass:We want to whatever it is where we can connect.
JD Mass:And as you start to connect with me as a human, naturally they become more uncomfortable being hateful.
JD Mass:Because I'm going to introduce you to black folks, whether it's through me and my behaviors and the welcoming that I receive from black folks and just my ability to share things in different ways, or I'm going to literally introduce you to Black folks, because they're around me so much.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And so as that starts to happen with the experiences, we'll start to, you know, be able to dismantle some of this.
JD Mass:And that's what the younger generation is already doing.
JD Mass:Naturally.
JD Mass:It's natural that it's been an ongoing process.
JD Mass:There's been more parents like mine now that raise their children in communities that are more, I mean, integrated.
Host:I want to go back to something you said, because I think there's a lot there, but I think I want to hone in on this one point.
Host:When I look at what's happening in our society, in our world, Scarcity is a huge part of the fear factor that we're all dealing with.
Host:And I don't think we think about that enough.
Host:And you said something I think is really important, especially me being a Christian.
Host:I come from the perspective that God gives us abundance.
Host:We have more than we need.
JD Mass:Right?
Host:But when you are told, when it is pushed on you that someone else is stealing something from you and making you live in a situation or a lifestyle less than you have and you deserve that scarcity mindset makes us do things and believe things and treat people certain ways because we always being told.
Host:And it drives me crazy that that person over there has something that you should have.
Host:And the reason they have is because they stole it from you.
Host:And you should hate them because they stole it from you.
Host:And we have this back and forth all the time with that person.
Host:Took something that belongs to you, you have every right to go get it back.
Host:I'm just curious.
Host:Part of my podcast is about building bridges.
Host:How do you build bridges when that scarcity mindset is indoctrinated into so many of us?
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:So it's.
JD Mass:Oh, that's the challenge.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:But the, my approach towards that is that is I actually have developed a social tree now.
JD Mass:I'm looking for somebody with some technical skills and, and, but looking like at a family tree, right?
JD Mass:If scarcity is this, then we come to a zero sum because there's only a limited amount.
JD Mass:And zero sum leads to competition leads.
JD Mass:Competition leads to trying to win instead of just being the best.
JD Mass:And we, and when we use this idea of competition in everything, oh, we need more competition.
JD Mass:That's going to help, you know, share the resource.
JD Mass:No, it's not.
JD Mass:It's.
JD Mass:It's literally the same mind doing the same thing, hoping for a different result.
JD Mass:But we, we, we build our business plans.
JD Mass:Who's the competition?
JD Mass:And why can't they be collaborators?
JD Mass:Or why can't we just share the space.
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:But if we see this limited amount of resources, then we're naturally coming in with this fear of control that if I don't have it, you do.
JD Mass:And now we got greed and all these other components of building culture that have spurned from this scarcity.
JD Mass:But yet we've never run out of.
JD Mass:What have we run out of?
JD Mass:We've not run out of water, we're not running out of food, we're not running out of gasoline and whatnot.
JD Mass:There's an abundance that's, you know, we're not also learning how life works and how food grows from the planet and we can eat that food and gain nourishment and be healthy.
JD Mass:And in doing so, we'll have a better relationship with the planet.
JD Mass:And we will.
JD Mass:And we will continue the life cycle because our bodies will then, you know, want to regenerate these seeds and plant and fertilize and do all of these things.
JD Mass:And it works.
JD Mass:It already works.
JD Mass:And there's more than enough space, but we don't see how much space is being misused to create this scarcity in our little society.
JD Mass:And if we don't go into black communities, if we don't go into white communities, if we don't go into Mexican communities, because we have been pitted against each other, then that adds to the heightened fear and now we have to rely on some outside source as to what black folks are like and what white folks are like and what, you know, and we, and we're not developing an understanding that there's just more than enough space on this earth.
JD Mass:There's more than enough resources on this earth.
JD Mass:The earth works in a certain way that we don't have to control it.
JD Mass:And that's part of, you know, what develops from an abundance mentality.
JD Mass:You have a village to raise the child.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:That, that approaches that.
JD Mass:It's not just my child.
JD Mass:I'm looking out for everybody.
JD Mass:Why?
JD Mass:Because everybody's also looking out for me.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And so trying to shift that mentality when I go into classrooms and I say, you know what if every decision you made, you thought about everybody else in the classroom?
JD Mass:Well, in our society that sounds like a very stressful thing.
JD Mass:Now I got to be worried about all of them.
JD Mass:I've only been taught to worry about myself because of this zero sum mentality.
JD Mass:But it doesn't seem so stressful when you think that all of the people in the classroom are also thinking about what's best for me, who now I got support and.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And so it's just a shifting in approach that needs to occur, and we have to kind of untangle and go back to the sources of what's causing these.
JD Mass:I don't want white to be bad.
JD Mass:Even though there's been a lot of manipulative, controlling things around white culture doesn't mean my skin makes me a bad person.
JD Mass:It means our practices are not good, and we can change those.
JD Mass:Those things can be changed, and we can gain understanding and gain appreciation and start to actually be connected to one another and not see each other as competition.
JD Mass:Because that's a divisive thing.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:We talk about how divided we are.
JD Mass:That's been a natural occurrence.
JD Mass:So.
Host:So you.
Host:You have what looks like audacious goals for a goal for race, for.
Host:For what?
Host:How do you measure success as you try to kind of unpack what you're trying to communicate to people and kind of give us the purpose of race for what?
Host:What's your ultimate hope in what you're doing?
JD Mass:How do I measure success?
JD Mass:I don't know, because I haven't seen enough of it yet to really know what I'm looking for, other than the feedback that I get, especially from younger generations who I'm targeting sort of that college age.
JD Mass:And it doesn't have to be in college, but you're becoming an adult.
JD Mass:What do you want to be as an adult?
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And I think that's an important time to try and.
JD Mass:To try and grasp a hold of these minds and start to say, hey, there was a way that we got here, and here's what we can do differently.
JD Mass:But it takes intentionality to change those things.
JD Mass:What my goal is is to influence other folks to start to see the process of change.
JD Mass:I have seven steps to changing.
JD Mass:The seventh step is manifesting humanity.
JD Mass:The first step is don't take a step.
JD Mass:Let's seek some understanding, like we're doing now, of how did we get here?
JD Mass:Why are we behaving in this manner?
JD Mass:Why is our culture set up this way?
JD Mass:Why are other cultures set up in the way that they are set up?
JD Mass:So let's seek understanding with a level of curiosity, not a level of how can I control and manipulate that?
JD Mass:And so if we can start to change the approach, then we go through the seven steps, and I'll just run them real quick, acknowledging the harm of our culture, letting go of this control and competition or power and privileges and the fears of change, letting go of all of those things.
JD Mass:And if we let go, we create more room for our curiosity.
JD Mass:We can appreciate the Value of others.
JD Mass:And if we can appreciate the value of others as step four, step five is repairing the harm, it.
JD Mass:It comes with a value and not just a cost to repairing the harm.
JD Mass:And then once we're starting that real healing process, now we have to learn how from a new mind.
JD Mass:How do we.
JD Mass:So we don't keep doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for different results.
JD Mass:We start to learn from a different people.
JD Mass:How do we build towards this step seven of humanity?
Host:I like your steps.
Host:I'm thinking I've done a lot of work in race, in my own sphere of life.
Host:The first step is the hardest.
Host:Nobody wants to talk about how we got here.
Host:Nobody wants to acknowledge the harm, because in acknowledging how we got here, we have to deal with the fact that some unpleasant things happen to get us here.
Host:And usually what I hear people say is, I don't want to deal with that guilt of the past.
JD Mass:Right.
Host:Which means you never get to acknowledging the harm that was caused because of what happened in the past.
JD Mass:And that's cancel culture.
JD Mass:Let's be clear about that.
Host:Right, exactly.
JD Mass:That's cancel culture as well.
JD Mass:Yeah.
Host:So as I work through this myself with people, I tell them, you know, you have to be willing to hear difficult conversations.
Host:You have to be willing to sit in other people's pain.
Host:And as uncomfortable as it might be for you to sit in that pain, you need to sit there.
Host:You need to hear the stories.
Host:Now, everybody's story now is not the same.
Host:Everybody's not impacted the same way like you just talked about.
Host:When you're in one neighborhood, you may never experience what it's like when you leave that group of people, but all of a sudden, you leave that group of people, and it's like, whoa, this is a whole nother circumstance here that I wasn't anticipating.
JD Mass:Right.
Host:So I know people who say, I grew up in so and so place, and the people of color or the white people in that community never got treated this way.
Host:You're making all this up.
Host:It's like, no, that's your context, and it may be true in your context.
Host:That does not mean it's not true in someone else's context.
Host:So are you willing to sit and listen to people's experience and empathize with that?
Host:Because you need to hear that to understand the greater picture.
Host:And I like something else you said.
Host:We are allowing outside forces to keep us separated and keep us fighting over the.
Host:Over the scraps while the king is eating at a fat table with a big banquet, and we see the king.
Host:And we're angry at the king because the king has so much and we have so little.
Host:So all of that plays into what we are trying to deal with in our culture that divides us.
Host:And we don't even see sometimes what we're fighting.
Host:So how do you help people begin to break down those things that are separating us?
Host:To say, if we think about each other and what the bigger picture of us together, how do you move them?
Host:Because I think those seven steps are really good.
Host:How do we get back to humanity?
Host:Because what I see so often in our society is we don't see the other side as human.
Host:And if you're not human, I can treat you or ignore you as much as I like to, because I don't see you as really a human.
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:And that comes back to this whole competition.
JD Mass:And then that's an easier way of looking at and justifying, right?
JD Mass:So, one, when we start to colonize hundreds of years ago, we're really first seeking resources.
JD Mass:We're seeking herbs from India.
JD Mass:We're seeking resources from Africa.
JD Mass:We're seeking these resources that we need for ourselves.
JD Mass:Have you ever wanted something so badly and thought you knew how to get it?
JD Mass:You didn't even recognize there was another way to get it, Right?
JD Mass:So to me, we approached it like someone was willing to share with us.
JD Mass:And there's proof written from colonizers, Christopher Columbus being one of them that said they were willing to share.
JD Mass:And we're like, no, give it to me.
JD Mass:Snatch it.
JD Mass:Got it.
JD Mass:Gotta kind of control it, right?
JD Mass:And that becomes an approach issue, right?
JD Mass:One approach is there's more than enough.
JD Mass:Let's all enjoy this.
JD Mass:It's a very enjoyable approach.
JD Mass:The other is a very scared thing.
JD Mass:I don't have that.
JD Mass:You do zero sum.
JD Mass:I gotta get it.
JD Mass:And now I'm seeing you as competition instead of as humans, instead of as somebody.
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:Also, this bully mentality of.
JD Mass:Of trying to be better than somebody.
JD Mass:What is it in us?
JD Mass:Why don't you know?
JD Mass:And this goes back to how difficult this conversation is.
JD Mass:What is it in us that makes us feel like we need to feel superior to somebody?
JD Mass:Because we can't say that we really feel superior.
JD Mass:Because if I did, I wouldn't be worried about you.
JD Mass:I would just be going on and being the best version of myself.
JD Mass:But in this feeling of now and.
JD Mass:And you look at bullies often, it's feeling of not being superior.
JD Mass:So I gotta make you feel less than me.
JD Mass:And that is the level of intentionality that went into slavery and Goes still into this competition to this day is how do I make you feel less than me?
JD Mass:And.
JD Mass:And so as we start to think about what do we want from the world, where do we want to be, how do we want to see it, how do we get there?
JD Mass:People can't answer those questions without some of this untangling of what has been your experience, what has.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And so if we can ask and start to examine these things.
JD Mass:I talk about reparations a lot as a human, A human humanitarian thing like us as white folks need to even experience that part of humanity of repairing the harm of this Jewish folks got reparations, that part of that reparations was giving them an area of northeast Africa that we call Israel.
JD Mass:You know, so many other folks have gotten reparations.
JD Mass:When you're personally injured, there's a system for reparations.
JD Mass:We have to be able to see reparations as a human, as a humanitarian thing that's going to impact our lives in a beautiful way as well.
JD Mass:And I, you know, I have a deep dive into that as a physical injury and whatnot.
Host:So I just saw that California had that as an issue on the docket and so I got buried.
Host:I also saw.
Host:It's a very controversial.
Host:It's a very controversial topic because there are people who go that would bankrupt them, that would bankrupt the country.
JD Mass:Isn't true.
JD Mass:Because we're scarcity.
Host:Yeah.
Host:And there are people who go, there's so much hurt.
Host:Where would it stop?
Host:And how do you determine who really was injured by the original offense?
Host:So it's a very controversial topic.
JD Mass:It is an amazing approach to that topic.
JD Mass:Because we were so wrong that nobody wants to go into how wrong we were.
JD Mass:We were so wrong that we feel afraid of repairing often because we're afraid of retribution and revenge.
JD Mass:And that admits though that we're wrong.
JD Mass:But yet we want to get repairing it just right before we leave and go forward and do the repairing it.
JD Mass:What happens if we over repair and overcompensate?
JD Mass:What goes wrong?
JD Mass:What's so right?
JD Mass:And so we make our own money.
JD Mass:So this idea.
JD Mass:We also make value out of nothing.
JD Mass:Oh, your appraisal of your house went up this then.
JD Mass:So there's so many ways to.
JD Mass:To bring forth reparations, but it also has to be done psychologically and emotionally too.
JD Mass:And I fear that these things that happen when discussions about reparations, it's always about just get the research so that we can get it just right.
JD Mass:And that's where we are in California.
JD Mass:And I Pray that they actually make a solid real attempt to this and whatnot.
JD Mass:But there's just this.
JD Mass:Have to get it right when it's been so wrong that led to this.
JD Mass:And it's such a political kill that even Biden and Harrison, I'm not speaking of them as fans, but they finally paid black farmers who had been discriminated against and not allowed to share in all of the resources that Trump put forth and that, that from.
JD Mass:From when he did the, the tariff with China and that caused such farmers to be to lose so much money and then Covid and all of these other things that caused problems where the government went in and repaired the harm that was done to farmers.
JD Mass:They specifically did not include black farmers in it.
JD Mass:Just like with FHA and VA loan opportunities, black folks were discriminated against and not able to participate in those things.
JD Mass:We need repair for that.
JD Mass:And they, Biden and Harris actually got $2 billion put towards black farmers.
JD Mass:But they had to fight that the whole tooth and nail.
JD Mass:And they won't even publicize that.
JD Mass:Why?
JD Mass:Because that's a, that is a political kill.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:True health and reparations are two things that are very humanitarian and very much political kills.
JD Mass:And that I want just us to ask our questions.
JD Mass:Why.
JD Mass:Why is having healthy food instead of all this harmful food not something we talk about?
JD Mass:But we'll talk about how we pay for your healthcare or your medical costs.
JD Mass:I shouldn't even say healthcare because it's really not health or care.
JD Mass:But we'll pay for your medical costs.
JD Mass:We talk about that and argue that point all day.
JD Mass:But we won't just talk about how do we avoid that and live healthier lives.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:We don't talk about how do we repair the harm of anti blackness.
JD Mass:And so if you don't repair an injury and a real severe injury, it's going to cause problems in other parts of the body.
JD Mass:If you ignore it, if you try and overcompensate for it in other ways, you cause problems for other parts of the body.
JD Mass:If we don't intentionally heal the harm, then in a competition there's constantly going to be levels of growing that people aren't able to do.
JD Mass:So.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:We have people in wheelchairs.
JD Mass:We create accessibility for those.
JD Mass:It's an accessibility to an opportunity.
JD Mass:If we don't create accessibility to opportunities and repair the harm, we're just constantly heaping on folks to pull themselves up by bootstraps on boots they don't even have.
JD Mass:And that, that whole construct.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:If I, if you see me get injured.
JD Mass:I would hope that you would help me even if you didn't do it.
JD Mass:And that's our thing.
JD Mass:I didn't do it.
JD Mass:We didn't do it.
JD Mass:That was too long ago.
JD Mass:We didn't do it.
JD Mass:Well, if you never healed it and you're not the ones that does it, when you get run off the road, aren't you going to want somebody to call an ambulance?
JD Mass:Aren't you going to want the ambulance driver to say, oh, I'm here to help, not I didn't do it, don't call me.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:Like, we need to participate together.
JD Mass:And there's so much that goes into it.
JD Mass:When you see somebody who's been injured, you care naturally about them recovering.
JD Mass:Even if you're not a part of it.
JD Mass:You're like, hey, you know, call me, keep me up to date.
JD Mass:Hey, how's that going?
JD Mass:How's it coming along?
JD Mass:There's a natural humanity in that.
JD Mass:We have to be able to see that in this sort of anti black racism that we've been living with.
Host:That was great.
Host:I'm gonna let that hang out there for people to chew on.
Host:I'm not gonna.
Host:Because I think it's one of those topics that you never can really get people to understand the depth of the black community.
Host:And a lot of people make excuses for this community, just pick itself by its own bootstraps.
Host:But you don't provide the community with quality education, quality healthcare, quality food.
Host:But somehow you blame the community for not rising to a level that it could rise to.
JD Mass:So it's like controlling that.
JD Mass:And when they do, let's be clear, when they have, we have bombed them, burned their villages down, we have burned their churches down.
JD Mass:We have taken away so much for no reason.
JD Mass:Not because in these villages they're creating weapons to come and attack us.
JD Mass:There's no proof of any mass destruction in retaliation to all of the harm that we've done.
JD Mass:We've, we've built our wealth, so much of our wealth on VHA loans and fh.
JD Mass:I mean, VH loan, VA loans and FHA loans.
JD Mass:And so many opportunities that we've created to create wealth for ourselves that black folks weren't allowed to be a part of.
JD Mass:At some point we have to recognize that anti blackness means that our approach to anything positive means they get it last.
JD Mass:And our approach to any healing or any, or our approach to anything punishable or negative, they get it first.
JD Mass:Right?
JD Mass:It's pointed.
JD Mass:Policing is pointed towards black communities.
JD Mass:Creating scarcity is pointed towards black communities sharing and in the resources that we have in this monetary system where we make our own money and value, we've given more value to our own lives than to everybody's life equally.
JD Mass:There's just not enough proof for white folks to feel like black folks have it, to be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
JD Mass:We just.
JD Mass:And so because we don't understand and we're never going to learn about it unless we take our own initiative to do so, we're just being weaponized in that manner.
Host:I think what's hard when I talk to people about the topic, and again, I don't have the solutions.
Host:I just see the problems because I've spent my ministry in.
Host:Started out in Detroit, Michigan.
Host:Then I went to St.
Host:Louis, Missouri.
Host:Then I was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, then Chicago.
JD Mass:Same cities over and over again.
Host:Yeah, same cities over and over again.
Host:And what I don't think people understand is there is such a heavy lift to get out of those situations, those dire situations, that if you're serving in those communities, you don't even know where to start because there's so much brokenness, there's so much pain, there's so much hurt, and there's this cycle where you can't get out of it.
Host:If you take a step forward with housing, you take two steps back with crime, or if you take a step forward with crime, you take two steps back with education, it's like the opportunities just aren't there.
Host:And for the people who do get out, it's like we always joked in Louisiana that it's like you feel like you're in a.
Host:In a.
Host:In a garbage can full of roaches.
Host:And when one roach gets to the top, most of them try to pull a roach back in so he can't leave.
Host:And that's what it often felt like in the black community.
Host:If somebody was trying to get out, it was like, I don't think it's.
Host:And I don't mean to describe them as roaches, but it was like there was this mindset of you, you have to scarcity again.
Host:If that person gets out, then there'll be less for us.
Host:So scarcity draws everybody back down into the barrel and it punishes everybody.
JD Mass:Resource.
JD Mass:It's a natural instinct to want to grab it.
JD Mass:Something that can bring you out even if you're pulling it down.
JD Mass:You don't think about it that way because you're in.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:If your needs aren't being met, you're.
JD Mass:You're not concerned about all of those things.
JD Mass:But two, the barrel or the trash can is truly not the roach's natural habitat.
JD Mass:And we don't acknowledge that.
JD Mass:We talk about crabs in a barrel.
JD Mass:The barrel is not the crab's natural habitat.
JD Mass:We've created a scarcity barrel.
JD Mass:And now we're saying, look at how they act like crabs in a barrel.
JD Mass:Of course they do.
JD Mass:It could be possums in a barrel.
JD Mass:It could be anything in a barrel.
JD Mass:The barrel is not a natural habitat.
JD Mass:It's a controlled habitat.
JD Mass:And so it's this idea of control and manipulation of life that we have to start to let go of.
JD Mass:There was, there was something else.
JD Mass:You know, the they.
JD Mass:This organization called the East west gateway here in St.
JD Mass:Louis one time presented like an overall outlook on all the economic factors of St.
JD Mass:Louis.
JD Mass:Every year they have this year ending thing and I got a chance to go one year and they presented how in, in healthcare there's been these improvements, although there's still this disparity.
JD Mass:In education, there's been these factors, although there's this disparity between black and white folks in such, you know, in financial and homeownership and all of these aspects, you know, these are the things that are happening and there's this disparity and we have this great location where so much transportation goes through St.
JD Mass:Louis.
JD Mass:You know, we need to, to look at how can we take advantage of that and build from there.
JD Mass:And so then they asked us all to speak and at the end I just was like, look, you guys keep saying there's this disparity and you don't know what to do with it.
JD Mass:It's called reparations.
JD Mass:It's called repairing it.
JD Mass:It's just called taking some intentional, intentionality behind it.
JD Mass:And I think that we don't understand the, the humanity in that, that it's okay to share these resources.
JD Mass:It is okay to let go of controls and see what other people can come up with.
JD Mass:It is okay to embrace one another and feel loved by and love for one another.
JD Mass:And it is okay to really be a part of the healing process and that will bring us all such a more peaceful life.
JD Mass:It is okay to have peace, and it's enjoyable to have and share and write.
JD Mass:These are things that naturally we understand from birth and we've been conditioned to feel afraid of losing something instead of recognizing there's so much to share.
Host:So you made that sound so good.
Host:I'm still not sure people are convinced.
JD Mass:About it, but I understand it's going to take more than this conversation to change the world.
Host:And honestly, I'm not sure where I stand on it either.
Host:Being an African American, I see both sides of it, but I also get that there's something is missing in those communities, and I'm not sure what that is to bring the levels up.
Host:So I agree that something needs to be done.
Host:I'm just not sure what that something is.
Host:So we agree that there needs to be something.
Host:I'm just not sure what it is.
JD Mass:Well, we need to let go of the grip.
Host:Right?
Host:Exactly.
JD Mass:And then see.
JD Mass:Let's just see if we're right.
Host:Right.
Host:So I'm curious, as you think, about how you engage with communities to foster understanding and collaboration.
Host:Because I think that's one thing that we started out this conversation with is if we begin to look at collaboration, even in.
Host:Even in communities, inside those places that are under resourced and those that aren't, what does that look like in the work that you do.
JD Mass:It'S about one, asking questions.
JD Mass:When someone is steadfast on their knowledge of something, do you really know it?
JD Mass:Have you experienced that?
JD Mass:Where is that coming from?
JD Mass:But also to start to encourage much more of the.
JD Mass:Building the gaps.
JD Mass:What are you basing this off of?
JD Mass:And a lot of times we're basing it off of somebody else's experience or what we feel in the news is reporting to us or what we've seen online.
JD Mass:Not knowing the algorithms are set up to keep supporting the same message.
JD Mass:What are we experiencing?
JD Mass:Because I can tell you from my experience, black communities have been the most welcoming community.
JD Mass:Indigenous cultures are very welcoming cultures.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And so how we share those things.
JD Mass:Start to look for proof that black folks are so dangerous, start to look for proof that these experiences exist, and then start to dismantle and maybe make us a little less afraid of going into them.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:That we.
JD Mass:We got to dismantle this fear that black folks are trying to harm us the way that we've harmed them.
JD Mass:Because there's no proof of that.
JD Mass:Right.
JD Mass:And.
JD Mass:And start to just recognize, like, let's be curious and let's go share in these things.
JD Mass:Let's start to recognize how much control is being made by the.
JD Mass:By the few.
JD Mass:And that's not benefiting any of us.
JD Mass:How do we build bridges is through experiences.
JD Mass:And I think that it's happening much more on a younger generational thing.
JD Mass:But we need to also continue to guide that as best we can.
JD Mass:And it takes, you know, hopefully it's not the blind leading the blind, but it's us becoming more curious about other cultures.
JD Mass:It's.
JD Mass:And learning more and starting to dismantle this ideas that we already have.
Host:You're not working in the easiest settings.
Host:So how do you stay motivated and resilient in the face of setback and resistance?
JD Mass:The resilience comes from.
JD Mass:It doesn't change unless we change it, right?
JD Mass:The going to the biblical understandings that I learned from the Hebrew Israelites, God is the creator.
JD Mass:The spirit of creativity is that we and write the abundant.
JD Mass:One thing that we have an abundance of is the ability to create ourselves in our body are recreating themselves.
JD Mass:Our imagination can be creative.
JD Mass:We created these screens that you and I are sharing right now.
JD Mass:Computers, microphones, headphones, shirts, all of this was created.
JD Mass:And so can we create a level of peace and an enjoyable community?
JD Mass:So that keeps me motivated and that it doesn't change unless we actually intentionally try to change it.
JD Mass:And it's an enjoyable.
JD Mass:Once you kind of break through some of that pain, right?
JD Mass:Going back to the repair process, when you're injured and you have to rehabilitate, it is painful even when you strengthen, even if you're not injured.
JD Mass:When you strengthen and you're lifting weights and it becomes painful, there is pain in the healing process.
JD Mass:And we can't be afraid of that pain because when it's healed or when we are stronger, we're in such a more enjoyable place, right?
JD Mass:We get so much more done.
JD Mass:And really, once the ball starts to be motivated in that direction, it becomes easier and easier and easier.
JD Mass:But I've seen the joy.
JD Mass:I've seen and experienced and tasted wonderful.
JD Mass:You know, watermelon and apples and grapes and whatnot from lands that haven't been tarnished the way we have.
JD Mass:And just enjoying that moment with other people, there's not a greater feeling for me.
JD Mass:And that's what I want others to experience.
Host:So I love to ask my guest this question.
Host:What do you want your legacy to be?
JD Mass:What do I want my legacy to be?
JD Mass:That he was an example of the, of the things that he spoke about.
JD Mass:That's basically it.
JD Mass:I mean, you know, when I do something small, I try and take consideration for others.
JD Mass:And I think that we, we can say these things all day long.
JD Mass:But that's part of the trickery of the sales and marketing of this country is we hear so much about, oh, what the promises are we're going to do.
JD Mass:We just need to live those things out.
JD Mass:Be who you want others to be.
JD Mass:And I want to, as best I can, be a reflection of that.
JD Mass:And, and you know, I'm not always that way.
JD Mass:I'm.
JD Mass:I've asked for forgiveness from folks, and I probably still will when I get irritated or, you know, stub my toe and then start cussing out the person who's in the room near.
JD Mass:Near me who's asking me what's wrong.
JD Mass:You know, these things happen.
JD Mass:Like, we need to be able to work through this.
JD Mass:And.
JD Mass:And so my legacy, I just want to be known as someone who did his best to live the words that he speaks.
Host:This is great.
Host:As you wrap up our conversation, what do you want to leave with the audience?
Host:As a key takeaway from our discussion today?
JD Mass:That going through this life from a competitive nature often makes us focus our time on positioning ourselves for the victory, positioning ourselves for controlling certain outcomes, positioning ourselves.
JD Mass:And what that does is it stops us from just being the best version of ourselves.
JD Mass:Let's go be the best human versions of ourselves.
JD Mass:Let's take our time to just get back to some simple truths about the planet, about how life works, about interacting with one another, and let's start to just go be the best version of ourselves and see what can come from that.
JD Mass:We don't have to fight the system.
JD Mass:The system is structured to fight and win.
JD Mass:We can.
JD Mass:We can let go of those things, those constructs, and enjoy one another by being the best versions of ourselves.
Host:So where can people find you and connect with you on social media?
JD Mass:So raceforwhat.com and that's f o r what.com is my website.
JD Mass:It's where my book is sold.
JD Mass:I'm going to be.
JD Mass:I'm close to finishing a.
JD Mass:An online program that can kind of walk us through these seven steps.
JD Mass:But in that at the website, you can also see the links to all the social media.
JD Mass:It's usually at raceforwhat on TikTok, on.
JD Mass:On Instagram.
JD Mass:And there's a Race for what page on Facebook, but more at.
JD Mass:There's also my email, Race the number for what Gmail.
JD Mass:And you know, my phone number is available on the website as well.
Host:Give us the name of your book again.
JD Mass:Race for what?
JD Mass:It's subtitled A White Man's Journey and Guide to Healing Racism from within.
Host:Well, J.D.
Host:thanks so much for taking the time to come on the podcast and talk about some difficult topics.
JD Mass:Thank you.
Host:And, you know, it's all about us working together to bring about a better.
Host:I like the idea of a better humanity because we have lost that ability to see each other the way God created us to be.
Host:And when we see each other that way, it changes our perspective of how we view each other and how we value each other, so I appreciate you reminding us.
JD Mass:So much more enjoyable than seeing you as an enemy.
Host:Definitely.
Host:Well, blessings, my friend, on what you do.
Host:And thank you.
Host:Go, Cardinals.
JD Mass:Likewise.
JD Mass:All right, take care.
