Empowering Voices: Dr. Daisy Khan on Muslim Women's Rights
Dr. Daisy Khan, an influential activist and author, joins the podcast to discuss her dedication to women's rights, particularly within the Muslim community. She emphasizes the importance of women taking control of their narratives, especially in a world where their stories are often misrepresented. Dr. Khan shares her personal journey from architectural designer to a leading voice in advocating for gender equality and human dignity, catalyzed by the events of 9/11. Through her initiatives, such as the Women’s Islamic Initiative for Spiritual Equality, she addresses critical issues faced by Afghan women, including education and empowerment. The conversation also touches on the misconceptions surrounding Sharia law, illustrating how it can be a framework for promoting women's rights rather than a tool for oppression.
In this conversation, Daisy Khan shares her journey as an activist for Muslim women's rights, discussing the importance of writing one's own narrative, the impact of 9/11 on her activism, and the challenges faced by Afghan women under Taliban rule. She explains the true meaning of Sharia law, addresses misconceptions about Muslim women's rights, and emphasizes the need for interfaith collaboration to promote peace. Khan also reflects on her legacy and aspirations for the future of women's rights in Islam.
Takeaways:
- Dr. Daisy Khan emphasizes the importance of shaping your own narrative as a marginalized individual.
- The Women's Islamic Initiative for Spiritual Equality aims to empower Muslim women globally through education and advocacy.
- Sharia law, often misunderstood, is rooted in scripture and promotes dignity and rights for all individuals.
- Dr. Khan's personal journey showcases the transformative power of faith in overcoming challenges for women.
- The interfaith dialogue initiatives foster understanding among diverse religious communities in today's divided society.
- Education for Afghan women remains crucial, despite ongoing challenges and systemic oppression they face.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
My guest today is Dr.
Host:Daisy Khan, an award winning speaker, author, activist, commentator and a founder of Women's Islamic Initiative for Spiritual Equality Wise, the largest global network of Muslim women committed to peace building, gender equality and human dignity.
Host:Dr.
Host:Khan's contributions to society have earned her numerous accolades including the Eleanor Roosevelt Human Rights Award and and the Edinburgh Peace Award.
Host:She has been recognized by Time magazine as one of the undermost influential people and by the Huffington Post as one of the top 10 women faith leaders.
Host:In addition to her activism, Dr.
Host:Khan is author of spiritual memoirs Born with Wings and an impactful Wise Up Knowledge Ends Extremism, which addresses the rise of Islamophobia and violent extremism.
Host:Her latest work, 30 Rights of Muslim Women, serves as a trusted guide that challenges negative stereotypes and affirms women's agency and Muslim communities.
Host:We welcome her to the podcast.
Host:It's so good to have you on today.
Host:Dr.
Host:Khan.
Host:How you doing?
Daisy Khan:Thank you so much.
Daisy Khan:I'm so excited to be here with you.
Host:I'm excited to have this conversation with you.
Host:Looking forward to having a riveting conversation with you this morning.
Daisy Khan:Yes, hopefully.
Host:Well, good.
Host:I love to ask my guest this question to kind of get to know you better.
Host:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Daisy Khan:You know, if you live long enough, you get a lot of advice from a lot of people.
Daisy Khan:But if I, if I had to explain one thing that I am using today in my own work, I would say that if you want to shape the discourse, then write your own story.
Daisy Khan:In other words, it reminds me of the fact that I have to take control of my own narrative because I come from a marginalized community where my narrative is written by others.
Daisy Khan:And so shaping the conversation and caring about the issues that I care about, I feel like I have to be at the forefront of writing my own plot, my own story, and my own narrative.
Host:That's so critical because you're right.
Host:If you come from a background where people love to write your story for you or even change your story, you want to make sure that you're the one defining what the story is.
Host:Right.
Daisy Khan:Exactly.
Daisy Khan:Exactly.
Host:I'm always curious.
Host:You've had a very storied career and a lot of awards and accolades, but who are some people along your journey who served as an inspiration for you or a mentor?
Daisy Khan:Yeah.
Daisy Khan:You know, this is a question that I often get from people because this is the one question that social activists always get asked, like, who's your role model?
Daisy Khan:Right.
Daisy Khan:I have to say that I've been Very fortunate because most of the role models have been family members.
Daisy Khan:So my grandfather was an engineer, but a man of absolute justice.
Daisy Khan:When I was a little girl, when I was born, in fact, when I was born, I was born a third daughter in a culture where girls were not prized, you know, as much as boys were.
Daisy Khan:And so I was kind of left to the side to fend for myself.
Daisy Khan:Well, you know, we'll see.
Daisy Khan:And then he came home and he found out that, you know, no one was celebrating.
Daisy Khan:And he got so angry and he ran up and picked me up in my birthday suit and declared to everybody that I was a gift of God and I would be treated like everyone else in this household.
Daisy Khan:So that is the kind of stuff that I grew up watching and emulating the people in my own family.
Daisy Khan:So I saw my grandmother, who was a saintly woman, and she showed me how, you know, and she didn't have any titles, she didn't have any robes, no nothing.
Daisy Khan:But yet people came to her for spiritual advice.
Daisy Khan:She was a teacher and she prayed all the time.
Daisy Khan:And from her I learned at a very young age that women can be spiritual teachers in their own way.
Daisy Khan:And my mother, always the first one to make mends with the enemy is a seat of compassion.
Daisy Khan:And to this day, you know, I tend to, you know, always I think of my mother every time I'm up against an enemy.
Daisy Khan:And my mother will tell me, you know, be compassionate, find something good in them.
Daisy Khan:So all of these people have shaped my lives, you know, and they are.
Daisy Khan:I'm a composite of all of them.
Host:What great set of witnesses you had in your life.
Host:What a.
Host:What a blessing that must have been.
Daisy Khan:Yes.
Host:So tell us a little bit more about your journey.
Host:What inspired you to find the women's Islamic initiative in spirituality and equality?
Daisy Khan:Well, so that too, you know, happened not by design, but by literally the sheer unfolding of 9 11.
Daisy Khan:You know, up until 9 11, I was an architectural designer and I was a career woman.
Daisy Khan:And then 911 happened and the image of Muslim women got shaped into the consciousness of Americans.
Daisy Khan:They began to see images of Taliban whipping women or stoning women and these horrendous images of women.
Daisy Khan:And I remember around that time, although I was a career woman, I was married to an imam and he was doing a lot of lecturing.
Daisy Khan:And you know, you're a reverend and you know, nothing happens but by divine intervention.
Daisy Khan:So there was this.
Daisy Khan:I accidentally double booked him at a synagogue, in a church.
Daisy Khan:And he looked at me and he said, we can't disappoint either you go to the church, I'll go to the synagogue.
Daisy Khan:And I had never really publicly spoken until that time.
Daisy Khan:Like, you know, I was.
Daisy Khan:I was doing some small time speaking, helping him out.
Daisy Khan:And I walked into this little church.
Daisy Khan:They were mostly senior citizens.
Daisy Khan:It was in Princeton, New Jersey.
Daisy Khan:And a woman asked me this very profound question about Muslim women and the treatment of women.
Daisy Khan:And of course, knowing my faith quite well, I explained to her that, you know, Islam had given rights to women in 7th century.
Daisy Khan:The right to own property, the right to divorce, the right to have a career, like all the rights that we think of in modern terms.
Daisy Khan:And then she looked at me and she said to me, she said, well, I believe you, dear, but explain to me why women are being treated the way they're being treated in Afghanistan.
Daisy Khan:And of course, I was very angry at my inability to do anything for Afghan women at that time.
Daisy Khan:And so then she said to me that very profound question that only comes from God through another person.
Daisy Khan:She said, never mind, dear, just tell me what you're doing about it.
Daisy Khan:And that was it.
Daisy Khan:I just knew that my community needed me more than corporate America.
Daisy Khan:And within a year, that question really stayed in my mind.
Daisy Khan:And I kept thinking to myself, yeah, what am I doing about it?
Daisy Khan:And if not me, then who?
Daisy Khan:And so that led me to.
Daisy Khan:I went to my husband and I said, I want to quit my corporate career and dedicate myself to community service and will you be able to support me?
Daisy Khan:And he said, if you're doing God's work, God will provide.
Daisy Khan:And that was it.
Daisy Khan:I never turned back.
Daisy Khan:And I'm so happy that I took this step because I've never regretted it, because I'm in God's service and there's nothing more meaningful than that.
Host:So let's dig a little bit deeper into that, because we don't, being in America, we don't always have connection to what's actually happening so far away.
Host:So what are some of the things that Afghan women were dealing with that you were trying to address for those who may not know the situation there?
Daisy Khan:Yeah, so they were being denied an education.
Daisy Khan:They were told that girls should not get educated.
Daisy Khan:In fact, they're still being denied an education even today.
Daisy Khan:All schools have been shut down.
Daisy Khan:Their girls are barred, primarily because the Taliban, you know, want to consolidate their power, and they, you know, by consolidating their power, they also want to make sure that they keep women indoors because women are also are raising their voices.
Daisy Khan:Women are very active.
Daisy Khan:You know, they are social, mobilizers many women, Afghan women have gotten PhDs and are career women.
Daisy Khan:So they want women to serve primarily in the role of being a mother.
Daisy Khan:And they just don't see women doing a duel like having a career and being a mother.
Daisy Khan:So that's one thing that they're doing.
Daisy Khan:The second thing they're doing is preventing women from having a career.
Daisy Khan:Which means if you don't have financial independence, if you don't have a career, you don't have financial independence, you're dependent on a man.
Daisy Khan:So that's another way that they want to control their population.
Daisy Khan:And you know, there were child brides, women were getting married at a very young age.
Daisy Khan:Like literally children being married off, human trafficking.
Daisy Khan:So lots of social issues that are, have no place in Islam.
Daisy Khan:They are un Islamic practices and they have no, there's no basis in our scripture for these.
Daisy Khan:So this is why I thought by starting Wise Women's Islamic Initiative in Spirituality Equality, which was a faith based movement, because in my community, if I have to create a change, I have to be able to speak to people in the language that they understand.
Daisy Khan:I have to use the framework of faith.
Daisy Khan:I have to cite scripture, I have to explain what Prophet Muhammad did and who he was and how he acted with women.
Daisy Khan:That's the only way I can change the belief systems of people.
Host:So because women don't have the same power in Afghanistan you had before America pulled out, how do you begin to change that culture now that things have kind of, in my opinion, I could be wrong.
Host:Taken a step back, how do you, how do you now change that culture, begin to make inroads when the men are in charge and they're the ones who really have to honor the changes.
Daisy Khan:Yeah.
Daisy Khan:So the men that are in charge are not men who are evolved men.
Daisy Khan:These are men with very limiting beliefs, like very narrow.
Daisy Khan:They just like don't even look at scripture.
Daisy Khan:If you cite, if you put scripture in front of them, they just look at you like, why are you giving me this?
Daisy Khan:And, and in Islam, the scripture is the highest, highest, most authoritative source of law.
Daisy Khan:Like what God says in the Quran is what stands.
Daisy Khan:Everything else is commentary after that.
Daisy Khan:So, so that's why we always citing scripture.
Daisy Khan:And so, so today, you know, it's ironic that we were in the United, United States, was there for more than a couple of decades and we made a lot of progress.
Daisy Khan:There were a lot of schools built, a lot of women got educated.
Daisy Khan:Like I said, you, we had more members of parliament in Afghan parliament than in the US Congress.
Daisy Khan:At one time we had 5,000 women who were police officers because we wanted women to police women, not men to police women.
Daisy Khan:All of that's gone.
Daisy Khan:All those women are not working now.
Daisy Khan:They have been, there's a clamp down on them, their careers.
Daisy Khan:So what are you supposed to do in a culture where majority and many women are widows?
Daisy Khan:Because, you know, you had war and you had a lot of men who died in these wars.
Daisy Khan:And now you have women who are primary bread, you know, they are the ones who are bringing the money in.
Daisy Khan:And so it's, it's a really grim situation.
Daisy Khan:But I am actually working right now in Afghanistan training women online to educate them about their rights.
Daisy Khan:Because only they can fight for their rights.
Daisy Khan:No, none of us can do it from abroad because everything, we are all being shut out of Afghanistan.
Host:So I've heard a lot about part of the conflict is the Islamic faith versus Sharia law.
Host:What does Sharia law play in the issues that women are dealing with in a place like Afghanistan?
Daisy Khan:Yeah, so Sharia law is actually drawn out of our scripture.
Daisy Khan:So Sharia's law is not separate from scripture.
Daisy Khan:So it's basically, you know, scholars attempt to look at what's in the Quran and determine what is the objective of the scripture.
Daisy Khan:Like what is the scripture trying to teach us.
Daisy Khan:So Sharia law has been defined as having six objectives.
Daisy Khan:Objective number one is to protect and promote.
Daisy Khan:It's calling, protecting, promoting.
Daisy Khan:So both simultaneously.
Daisy Khan:One, you protect, but you also promote.
Daisy Khan:So protecting and promoting life, meaning you can't take another human being's life, you know, away from them.
Daisy Khan:It's just not, it's something that only God, God can take a life unless it's by due process, you know, like if you kill somebody.
Daisy Khan:And then in some cases that's permissible, but only when you have, when you are going through the, you know, the legal system.
Daisy Khan:Second is protecting and promoting family, meaning you have a right to get married, you have a right to have children, you have right to have a family.
Daisy Khan:And third is religion.
Daisy Khan:Protecting and promoting religious, which means religious freedom.
Daisy Khan:And this is one of the arguments that we also use in Afghanistan is because by clamping down women, you're curbing their religious freedom.
Daisy Khan:You know, they can't go to a mosque, they can't celebrate holidays publicly.
Daisy Khan:You know, they can't, they can't engage in charity, they can't, they can't do all the things that are, you know, are, that's part of our pillars.
Daisy Khan:The sixth is protecting and promoting your intellect, meaning you have a right to education.
Daisy Khan:You have a right to further your mind or to expand your mind or to seek more knowledge.
Daisy Khan:And then the fifth is protecting and promoting your wealth, meaning you have the right to own property, buy property.
Daisy Khan:And the sixth is protecting and promoting your dignity.
Daisy Khan:So dignity is God given, not given by the state.
Daisy Khan:And so you can't strip somebody's dignity.
Daisy Khan:So these six objectives are objectives that are for every human being, not just for Muslims.
Daisy Khan:It's for men, women, and all children of Adam and Eve.
Daisy Khan:So they apply to everyone.
Daisy Khan:And so underneath these six objectives are certain laws or certain protections.
Daisy Khan:So that's what I describe in my new book, this book that I published, 30 rights of Muslim women.
Daisy Khan:And in this book I organized the rights of Muslim women in accordance with Sharia.
Daisy Khan:Because what's happened in the US is we have.
Daisy Khan:Sharia law has been reported in the press to mean a harsh penal code, punishments, right?
Daisy Khan:Like stonings and cutting off of hands.
Daisy Khan:And that only happens in a handful of nations and really does not happen.
Daisy Khan:There are 57 Muslim majority nations.
Daisy Khan:And so you have a couple of nations that apply them once in a while.
Daisy Khan:It's not, it's not.
Daisy Khan:It's like, it would be like saying that, you know, we have capital punishment in one state and so therefore there's capital punishment all over America.
Daisy Khan:Or if you're death by injection.
Daisy Khan:And then we would be so mortified and people will say, oh my God, they kill people in America by injection.
Daisy Khan:You know, so this is how ridiculous it is.
Daisy Khan:It's not about penal codes and punishments.
Daisy Khan:Sharia also include your right to practice, to pray, to fast, to give charity.
Daisy Khan:So there's a confusion in the minds of Americans that Sharia means only this.
Daisy Khan:It does not mean penal code punishments.
Daisy Khan:Punishments are there for theft, for adultery, for all the cardinal sins, basically.
Daisy Khan:And they can be very.
Daisy Khan:The punishments can be harsh.
Daisy Khan:The punishments that used to happen in 7th century Arabia because that was the only way to punish people in those days.
Daisy Khan:Or they can be very compassionate and forgiving.
Daisy Khan:If a person has killed somebody, you can say, okay, you have to pay their family because you've taken over their source of income and the only livelihood.
Daisy Khan:So then there's compensation.
Daisy Khan:And so that's one way to do it.
Daisy Khan:Another way is to just kill that person and then nobody gains from that.
Daisy Khan:So, so this is, this is one of the things that I do through my book, not only with the American public, but also with Muslims themselves, because sometimes even Muslims don't know this.
Host:Well, that's very helpful.
Host:I'm Curious as you're an activist and for women, what are some misconceptions?
Host:We just talked about a couple of those.
Host:When it comes to women's rights and Muslim women's rights in America, how do you help people understand what is going on globally with women's rights and even here in Marian.
Host:America?
Daisy Khan:Yeah, yeah.
Daisy Khan:Well, I think that some of the misconceptions that seeped into the consciousness of Americans have to do with what's happening abroad.
Daisy Khan:Right.
Daisy Khan:It's mostly coming from certain events that are taking place.
Daisy Khan:So for instance, in the very.
Daisy Khan: u are old enough to remember,: Daisy Khan:And during the Immanuel Revolution, you had women wearing these chadars, these black chadars, and they were chanting, death to America.
Daisy Khan:So in the minds of the consciousness of Americans, all Americans think that Muslim women are supposed to wear a black shroud and a burqa or a hijab and is seen.
Daisy Khan:It's associated with something that is negative, something that is threatening, something that is part of, you know, violence or call for violence or something like that, and that has seeped into the consciousness of Americans.
Daisy Khan:So if you see a woman who's covered and people cover because they are instructed in the Quran to be modest.
Daisy Khan:And so modesty is defined by people.
Daisy Khan:Once you go into scripture, you see how much of myself should I cover that?
Daisy Khan:That is up for debate.
Daisy Khan:Many people have debated that topic.
Daisy Khan:But generally speaking, now a lot of women are choosing to cover themselves because they don't want to be objectified sexually.
Daisy Khan:This is like their way of asserting their faith.
Daisy Khan:They're saying, I want to be covered.
Daisy Khan:I want to be known for my brain, not for my body.
Daisy Khan:So they're choosing to cover.
Daisy Khan:And somehow this covering is now, you know, you know, connected to something that is negative, regressive backwardness.
Daisy Khan:And that's one of the tropes of Islamophobia that has taken root, unfortunately, in America.
Daisy Khan:Of course, there are many others.
Daisy Khan:We can't go through all of them.
Daisy Khan:I'm going to give you.
Daisy Khan:I'm giving you little nuggets because I know that you want to ask many questions.
Host:No, this is very helpful.
Host:I am curious because we're all seeing here in America the conflict in the Middle east.
Host:And I just had a guest on my podcast who was Jewish.
Host:So I love your perspective of the situation because I think it may give us some context as we try to, in America figure out what we can do to maybe help and bring peace to the area.
Daisy Khan:Yeah, well, first of all, it's the holy land.
Daisy Khan:And we should all be worried about that, right?
Daisy Khan:It's our holy land.
Daisy Khan:It's the birthplace of Jesus.
Daisy Khan:It's the second holiest place in Islam.
Daisy Khan:The first holy places are in, in Mecca and Medina.
Daisy Khan:You know, Mecca being the cubical structure, what we call the Kaaba that we circumculate every year when we go for annual pilgrimage.
Daisy Khan:The second is the Prophet's mosque, where we visit him because he's buried there.
Daisy Khan:And the third is Jerusalem where Prophet ascended up to the heavens and met with God.
Daisy Khan:So that's the only kind of miracle that he had.
Daisy Khan:So this place is central to all of our three faiths, right?
Daisy Khan:And sometimes I think maybe God has a sense of humor, like the smallest piece of real estate that testing all of us to see how we're going to behave.
Daisy Khan:So that's one thing.
Daisy Khan:I'm not sure why all of our Abrahamic religions and the leaders and the, and the, you know, the people who are religious leaders have not stepped into the fray.
Daisy Khan:You know, I'm very shocked by that because even the Christians are being decimated.
Daisy Khan:I mean, you know, their numbers are dwindling, they've left, they're scared, you know, and.
Daisy Khan:But then primarily this conflict is about land, it's not about religion.
Daisy Khan:And I do a lot of Jewish Muslim dialogue and Jewish Muslim engagement.
Daisy Khan:And we know that it has to be solved diplomatically and it has to be solved through negotiations.
Daisy Khan:And that's why I believe that if our three faiths came together and tried to resolve this conflict in a sober manner, because we do want to protect our holy sites, but also we want to stop the oppression and the subjugation of another people, of the Palestinian people.
Daisy Khan:They are a subjugated people.
Daisy Khan:And in this day and age we don't accept subjugation at all.
Daisy Khan:This is something that we think of in the past, right?
Daisy Khan:And many people who have experienced it have moved away from it and know the long term consequences of subjugation and oppression.
Daisy Khan:It is, you know, cycle, not only psychological, but economically and physically.
Daisy Khan:It takes a real toll, generational toll.
Daisy Khan:And so this has to be stopped one way or the other.
Daisy Khan:It has to be stopped because it's not sustainable for anybody.
Daisy Khan:It's not even sustainable for Israel.
Daisy Khan:They think it's sustainable because the people in power think it's sustainable for them because it's sustaining them.
Daisy Khan:And we all know that these wars are really waged by a handful of people who are committed to waging the war or committing to meeting a political objective and then war then becomes that tool to reach that objective.
Daisy Khan:And so what is the objective here?
Daisy Khan:You cannot x out 7 million people out of their territory.
Daisy Khan:You cannot.
Daisy Khan:Not in this day and age.
Daisy Khan:They have no place to go.
Daisy Khan:And as you have already seen, if the.
Daisy Khan:If the plan was to cleanse the people from.
Daisy Khan:From this territory, they have not gone.
Host:Right.
Daisy Khan:Because the Palestinians refused to go.
Daisy Khan:And I think that maybe that may have been one of the things that was a miscalculation.
Daisy Khan:There was an assumption that if you drive them out, that they will leave.
Daisy Khan:They haven't left.
Daisy Khan:They're not going anywhere.
Daisy Khan:And I know Palestinians, I know many Palestinians, and they're not going anywhere.
Daisy Khan:The ones that could are in diaspora.
Daisy Khan:They've already left, but these people are not going anywhere.
Host:Well, it's always a complicated thing, and I appreciate people who are trying to speak peace into this situation.
Host:You know, one of the things I admired about your bio was that you have a role to work with, interfaith collaborations to bring about understanding and conversations.
Host:Tell me how that's going.
Host:I'm just curious, because we live in such divided times, and we have our camps that we run to, and we don't often integrate well or converse well.
Host:So how is that going for you?
Daisy Khan:Yeah, well, you know, first of all, where I.
Daisy Khan:Where I was born, I was born in Kashmir, which is in the foothills of the Himalayas in Northern India.
Daisy Khan:And I was born into a Muslim home, but I was sent to a Christian missionary school for.
Daisy Khan:For 12 years.
Daisy Khan:I did the Lord's Prayer every morning.
Daisy Khan:So I'm a Muslim that grew up doing the Lord's Prayer and, you know, was taught by Irish nuns.
Daisy Khan:And so my teachers were Hindu, my friends were Sikhs, and, you know, we met with the Buddhists.
Daisy Khan:And then when I came to America, I landed a Jewish neighborhood.
Daisy Khan:So my whole life has been shaped by religious pluralism and seeing the diversity of religions, but in a very positive light in the sense that, you know, we were Muslim kids who were celebrating Christmas because the nuns didn't have anybody who could celebrate Christmas with them.
Daisy Khan:So we were doing the Christmas carols for them, and we would exchange gifts with our Hindu friends.
Daisy Khan:At the time when it was their holiday, they would send us cakes for at Ramadan and Eid.
Daisy Khan:This was the way.
Daisy Khan:It was a way of, like, honoring and respecting one another.
Daisy Khan:So when I came to America and I landed in a Jewish neighborhood, I was like, where are the Christmas trees?
Daisy Khan:I couldn't see a Christmas tree because I thought I had landed in a Christian country.
Daisy Khan:But I was in a primarily Jewish neighborhood.
Daisy Khan:So that was a shock to me.
Daisy Khan:And then when 911 happened, I felt very equipped.
Daisy Khan:I was naturally equipped to reach across the aisle and say, okay, we can all get, get along.
Daisy Khan:And so I immediately became a, you know, bridge builder.
Daisy Khan:And.
Daisy Khan:Which is your show?
Daisy Khan:I.
Daisy Khan:I was one of the early ones who said, let's build bridges between fates.
Daisy Khan:And the fates were my.
Daisy Khan:My natural, you know, people that I reached out to, because those are the people that I knew, and I respected them.
Daisy Khan:And I didn't want to see religious conflict deepen between my community and other faith communities.
Daisy Khan:So I reached out to my friend in the Methodist church and then a Jewish woman and three women, we came together and we produced a beautiful theatrical production called Same Difference.
Daisy Khan:And we interviewed people on the streets and we said we wanted to get people's perceptions of the other.
Daisy Khan:So we collected these perceptions that people had about Christians, Muslims.
Daisy Khan:I'm talking raw, raw perceptions.
Daisy Khan:And we did this theatrical production where we were able to use the license of art to say the things that we normally couldn't say to one another.
Daisy Khan:And then we had a panel discussion about it.
Daisy Khan:And it was a 16 week, very successful show that was sold out for 16 weeks.
Daisy Khan:So then after that, we got together and we wanted to break bread together.
Daisy Khan:So we looked at our scriptures and we said, what do our scriptures say about bread?
Daisy Khan:And we created a bread fest where we did the Eucharist and we had 16 organizations that came together this early.
Daisy Khan:Building bridges and collaboration between faiths has really served us well to this day, because these early relationships that we formed then got expanded to more and more.
Daisy Khan:And today, you know, we can galvanize hundreds of faith organizations together for any given issue.
Daisy Khan:So when one gets attacked, we all circle the wagons around each other.
Daisy Khan:But, you know, it has its limitations.
Daisy Khan:It does have its limitation.
Daisy Khan:And we're seeing that in the case of Israel and Palestine and the war in Palestine and the death and destruction Israel, we can see two competing narratives.
Daisy Khan:And it's very hard for all the faith communities to come together because they are pulled in different directions.
Daisy Khan:I do say there's a lot that interfaith can do, but it does have its limitations.
Daisy Khan:People who are bold have to step into the arena and say, there is a better way, and that is the better way and a third way that we have defined because the current way is not working.
Host:That's very good.
Host:That's very helpful.
Host:You have another book you wrote too, called Born with Wings.
Host:Tell us about what, what inspired you to share that Story.
Daisy Khan:Well, you know, actually, I wanted to, because I was trying to change perceptions about Muslim women.
Daisy Khan:And I was researching who these amazing Muslim women were, and I found this, like, amazing repository of civilizational heroes that were not even known by me, and I wanted to share them to the rest of the world.
Daisy Khan:So I went to a publisher and I said, actually an agent.
Daisy Khan:And I told them that I had this idea that I wanted to do a coffee table beautiful, glossy book with photos and everything of all these women.
Daisy Khan:And I wanted every person to have this coffee table book.
Daisy Khan:And they said, oh, well, nobody.
Daisy Khan:Nobody publishes coffee table books anymore.
Daisy Khan:You know, those kinds of books are, like, in the past.
Daisy Khan:And then they looked at me and they said, have you written your own book?
Daisy Khan:I said, well, why would anybody want to read my book?
Daisy Khan:They said, well, we would.
Daisy Khan:And so it really.
Daisy Khan:I was not planning to write the book.
Daisy Khan:It was at somebody else's suggestion because they thought it was interesting to see a woman trajectory change, like having this circuitous journey to the path of assuming a leadership in a community that usually you did not see women in a leadership role.
Daisy Khan:So I wrote the book to trace my own journey, to see how I came to this, what inspired me, what are those.
Daisy Khan:One of those moments of divine inspiration where I felt I was being charged with something more than I had, you know, more than I had ever imagined for myself.
Daisy Khan:And how do you assume this mandate and how do you accept it and how do you honor it?
Daisy Khan:And then how do you rise, you know, with this, doing this work?
Daisy Khan:So it's not.
Daisy Khan:It's.
Daisy Khan:It's my story, but it's also, it has many lessons in it for others who might be traversing this journey, because I also went through a phase of doubt and a little bit of disbelief.
Daisy Khan:So I also show that people, hey, people, you can lose your faith and you can sever your relationship with God, and yes, you can come back.
Daisy Khan:So.
Daisy Khan:So it's.
Daisy Khan:It's redemption.
Daisy Khan:It's got.
Daisy Khan:It was, you know, it's got a lot of things that people will see different things in it.
Host:Oh, how neat.
Host:I'm curious as you think about your journey and where you.
Host:Where God has led you and where you're moving forward.
Host:What do you want your legacy to be when it concerns Muslim women's rights?
Daisy Khan:Yeah.
Daisy Khan:You know, I think that my stage just keeps enlarging, and I'm always shocked at how much it's enlarging.
Daisy Khan:And I'm so grateful to God because I'm always in communication with God and I'm always Saying, okay, my Lord, I'm here.
Daisy Khan:What do you want me to do next?
Daisy Khan:And I feel like this mandate keeps getting thrust upon me every step of the way as I'm going.
Daisy Khan:But what I show to people is that, that Islam empowers women to express their faith.
Daisy Khan:And there have been luminary women who have uplifted our communities and shaped our destinies.
Daisy Khan:Many women in our scriptures have rescued prophets.
Daisy Khan:And I'm not talking just the Islamic scripture, I'm talking all of our scriptures.
Daisy Khan:The, the Abrahamic faiths, they rescued prophets, they were martyrs.
Daisy Khan:They acted, they taught, they issued decrees, they advised teachers, they debated as equals.
Daisy Khan:They cure and they cured the ill.
Daisy Khan:And many even fought in battles, like alongside men.
Daisy Khan:And this is, this is the story I want to convey to people, is that God has honored women and has always made a woman a co steward with men.
Daisy Khan:In many cases, you could see a prophet and there's always a woman.
Daisy Khan:She's playing a key role in some way or the other.
Daisy Khan:And so, yeah, we are not a second thought.
Daisy Khan:You know, we are created with a, with a huge purpose to bring life into this world because without women, there would be no life.
Daisy Khan:And once you have no life, you have no family, you have no, no community, you have no society, you have no civilization.
Daisy Khan:So, so, you know, this is why the, this is why the prophet said, paradise lies at the feet of the mother.
Daisy Khan:In other words, the mother is so important and must be honored for not only being your mother, but also the role that a mother usually plays.
Daisy Khan:So I'm lifting women up to think of themselves differently, not to think of yourself as a second thought, but really to see everything from God's point of view.
Daisy Khan:So in my book, I show how God is so kind to women through the scriptures, always sending new verses, always elevating women, always listening to women's dialogue, even saying, oh, I have heard her plea, you know, so there are all these beautiful verses that came down as a result of women questioning the prophet.
Daisy Khan:Like, why does God only speak to men?
Daisy Khan:Address men in the verse, you know, in one of the verses.
Daisy Khan:And then the prophet didn't have an answer.
Daisy Khan:And the most beautiful verse came down that talks about men and women, charitable men and women, arms giving men and women, women who guard their modesty, women who.
Daisy Khan:Men and women who do good, always pairing the man with the woman.
Daisy Khan:So this is our reality.
Daisy Khan:And yet many women are suffering in many parts of the world.
Daisy Khan:And it's primarily because of men's limiting beliefs, not because of scripture.
Host:I love that where can people find your books, especially your new book, 30 Rights of Muslim Women and Born with Wings.
Daisy Khan:So 30 rights of Muslim Women is available on Walmart and all the bookstores and Amazon.
Daisy Khan:It's also in on Kindle.
Daisy Khan:So the name is Daisy Khan, K H A N.
Daisy Khan:But it's not an audio book, it's just a soft cover book because I wanted people to be able to carry it easily.
Daisy Khan:And Born with Wings is available on Amazon and I don't know if it's on bookstores because it's an older book, so.
Daisy Khan:And it's an audio book.
Daisy Khan:So a friend of mine who's a devout Christian said that she loves cooking.
Daisy Khan:She has so many children.
Daisy Khan:She's like, I'm so busy.
Daisy Khan:She, she, she heard my book while she was doing all her kitchen duties.
Daisy Khan:So.
Daisy Khan:So if you're a podcaster or you like listening to books, you will find 30 rights and it's in my voice.
Host:Oh, that's cool.
Host:Where can people connect with you on social media if they want to learn more about you?
Daisy Khan:Social media.
Daisy Khan:So Daisy Khan on Facebook, just my name, Daisy Khan NYC on Instagram, Dr.
Daisy Khan:Daisy Khan on LinkedIn.
Daisy Khan:And of course people can send me an email@infoaisycon.com and then my website, my personal website is daisycon.com so it's mostly my name.
Daisy Khan:I'm very googleable.
Host:So if you look up Daisy Cowan, they should be able to find you.
Daisy Khan:Yeah, you should be able to find tons of stuff on me.
Host:Well, thank you for having this conversation with me, giving us some more insights about, you know, the women, Muslim women that we may be at misunderstandings about and the work that you do.
Host:We thank you for what you do to raise awareness to how important women are in our lives and how important you are in society.
Host:So we appreciate the work that you do.
Daisy Khan:Thank you so much, Dr.
Daisy Khan:Keith.
Daisy Khan:And I love being here with you and your audience and it's a pleasure being here and this is the kind of conversations I love having, you know?
Host:I agree.
Daisy Khan:Yeah.
Host:Well, blessings on the work you do.
Daisy Khan:Thank you so much.
Daisy Khan:Much appreciated.
Daisy Khan:Bye.
