Building Bridges: A Conversation with Dr. Cheryl Coleman on Race and Faith
Dr. Cheryl Coleman, a distinguished consultant and expert in public affairs, joins the podcast to discuss the vital importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) within faith-based organizations. She emphasizes that genuine transformation requires individuals to address their own biases and perspectives, especially concerning race relations. Throughout the conversation, Dr. Coleman shares her journey from advocating for public policies in Washington, D.C., to concentrating on workforce development and the spiritual implications of identity in Christ. She underscores the need for churches to acknowledge and celebrate their diversity, moving past cultural constructs that create division. Ultimately, Dr. Coleman urges listeners to reflect on their roles within the body of Christ and to pursue healing and unity in a world that frequently promotes division.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman's insights into organizational leadership and DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) present a captivating narrative on the intersection of faith and social justice. With years of experience, Dr. Coleman expresses her passion for creating inclusive workplaces that celebrate the unique contributions of every individual. The conversation emphasizes her personal journey, shaped by her upbringing and the support of her father, who encouraged her to embrace her authentic self. This theme of authenticity resonates throughout the episode as Dr. Coleman inspires the audience to engage in deep self-reflection and to reject societal pressures that dictate how one should present themselves in the world.
The dialogue critically examines public policy and its implications for faith communities, especially regarding discussions on race and equity. Dr. Coleman shares her experiences navigating the complexities of political advocacy, often finding herself at odds with policies that fail to serve marginalized communities. This tension fuels her dedication to DEI work, where she emphasizes the importance of aligning organizational practices with Christian faith values. She passionately argues that the church must proactively address issues of race and inclusion, embodying the principles of love and unity as outlined in scripture.
As the conversation progresses, Dr. Coleman provides actionable insights for organizations seeking to enhance their DEI efforts. She advocates for a comprehensive approach that involves needs assessments, open dialogue, and a commitment to valuing diverse perspectives. Her message is clear: to build a flourishing community that reflects God’s kingdom, organizations must confront their biases and actively work towards fostering an inclusive culture. Dr. Coleman’s deep conviction and clarity of purpose shine through, making this episode a powerful call to action for all faith-based organizations striving to fulfill their mission in a diverse world.
Takeaways:
- Dr. Cheryl Coleman emphasizes the importance of being your authentic self in all aspects of life.
- True diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts should align with biblical principles and faith-based values.
- The journey of understanding race relations begins with self-reflection and examining personal biases.
- Public policy often misguides communities and can detract from the mission of the church.
- Engaging with diverse perspectives within organizations enhances effectiveness and fosters a sense of belonging.
- Dr. Coleman encourages individuals to seek God’s guidance in understanding their identity beyond societal labels.
Transcript
My guest today is Dr.
Host:Cheryl Coleman.
Host:She's a distinguished consultant and leader with a PhD in Public affairs from University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
Host:With a relentless passion for guiding organizations toward excellence in workforce development, organizational leadership and race related diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives.
Host:With a robust academic foundation and a career spanning several decades, Dr.
Host:Coleman is committed to driving transformational change and fostering inclusive, thriving workplaces.
Host:We welcome her to the podcast.
Host:Well, Dr.
Host:Coleman, welcome to the podcast.
Host:How are you doing this fine day or for you, fine evening?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Thank you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Thank you, sir.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Appreciate it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's a pleasure to be here.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I've looked forward to this.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You're.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You're fully booked.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, it's taken months to get in, to get to have this opportunity.
Host:When God opens doors, you got to walk through those doors.
Host:You may fill your plate up with things.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yes.
Host:But I'm looking forward to this.
Host:I love to ask my guests this question to kind of break the ice.
Host:What is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Ah, that's a good question because I live it out daily.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that is to just be the best you that you can be.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:To be the best Cheryl that I can be.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, there's so many influences out there, I mean, in media and various relationships and everything where, you know, you can kind of get yourself lost in and who you really are.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so every day I think about that person in the mirror and just being true to, true to that person.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I remember growing up, you know, I used to be a love to be a performer, you know, before my parents and their company.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I would just dance for them and sing and play.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And one day I walked in the bathroom and I looked in the mirror and something said to me, that's not who you are, you know.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you put on these shows and put on different hats and take them off to be showing up as who you think you should show up as.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, you know, I just learned to just try to be the best me that I can be with my flaws, with my successes, with everything that I bring to the table, because I can only be the best me that I can be.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I live with me 24 7.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I can't, you know, I can't perform to be someone else.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I appreciate acting, but, you know, I like to just try to be my authentic self.
Host:I love that.
Host:And it's so important because we are the best version of ourselves that God made us to be.
Host:So being something else puts us outside of even God's desire for us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How do you do it?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How do you do it?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, you know, if you, if you know who you are, you focus on being the best you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that's, you know, prayer and, and just being honest and allowing God to change you and transform you to make you the best that you can be for him.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I think I always tell my kids and my grandkids, you know, don't work to please me, work to please God.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:When you're pleasing God, you're, you're pleasing me.
Host:I love that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yeah.
Host:For people like yourself who have.
Host:God has used to accomplish so many things, they're never, we never make this journey on our own without important people in our lives who've served to be a mentor or inspiration.
Host:Who are some people you want to, you can name those people if you like and kind of give them a thank you for the fact that God used them in your life.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, that's a good question.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I would have to say my dad, my father, my parents, but, but namely my father.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I'm the youngest of three children in our home and as the older kids were growing up, I was, you know, always around my parents and my dad always was my biggest cheerleader.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He's, he's deceased now, but he, he was my biggest cheerleader and he always told me, you can do anything you set your to.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And he was a great example of that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, he worked.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He was the son of a southern sharecropper, grandson of an American slave, and he took that journey from the south and moved up north and, and got one of those nice manufacturing jobs that they had in the, you know, the middle of the 20th century.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But he was also, you know, a carpenter.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He knew how to build with his hands.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He went to work every day.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He never missed a day of work.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I think the only time that he missed work was when he experienced a work related accident.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He worked in a foundry and so he got burned and so he had to take some time off from work.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But he was, if he wasn't working in the, in the foundry, he was working at home building things.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He could cook.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, he did anything that he set his mind to do.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so he was that example.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He, he just, he never complained.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He was a good provider.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He was resourceful and he was smart.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He, you know, he was the, the, the person in the family, 32 brothers and sisters he had and he was the person in his family who was the, the counselor.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Whenever anyone had a problem, they always came to him and he could solve problems.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So, you know, growing up around him and watching him consistently put his hand to good work, to produce good things was a great example to me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I just, you know, I think about him all the time, even as an adult, you know, what would Papa do, you know, and think about the things that he would say to me in my ear, that you can do it, you can do anything and don't ever give up.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And my mother was similarly, you know, my greatest cheerleader.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, always stuck by me with all my business ideas and all my ideas that I had.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, my family, they, they, they believed in me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, you know, when you've got someone who can believe in you despite, you know, the number of mistakes that you make, they're always there.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's who I would say my parents were.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They always supported and, and their brothers and sisters, they would bring, buy in.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They would, you know, sell my ideas to my, to their brothers and sisters and other family.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then I would get that added support.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So definitely my parents and, and, and most notably my father.
Host:I love that looking at your bio, you have some things in your bio that just kind of resonate with me.
Host:I've always loved organizational change or at least organizational leadership.
Host:I did my doctorate in that.
Host:That's.
Host:So that's my area of expertise, so to speak.
Host:I always joke when I was younger, you know, there was a box that people want always try to put you into.
Host:I like to blow the box up and start over from scratch.
Host:So I'm curious.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yes.
Host:Tell us about your journey.
Host:What inspired you to get involved in public affairs and organizational leadership?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, I was picked for that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, you know, I believe that God.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yeah, I believe that God has a path for us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, years ago, when I lived in Washington, D.C.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:and I was part of my church, I was recruited just by me being faithful and just being myself and just kind of living, living out my faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I was asked to oversee a new ministry which was called Public affairs, whereby, and being right there in Washington D.C.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:whereby I would analyze public policy and then interpret it so that the lay congregation can understand what it meant.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then they gave me the role of publishing a newspaper.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I would put all this information in a newspaper.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And in doing that, I was recruited by a Washington lobbying firm to come in.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Just by me being faithful there to come in and to lobby Congress on specific issues that were at the time believed to be relevant to the faith community.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I would do what I had always learned to do, actually.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Naturally I was curious and inquisitive about, you know, policy and different things.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I would always go out and research these things.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I was recruited and ultimately my path took me out west and I started working on higher education.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it seemed like everything was directing me towards workforce development.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I have a master's degree in educational leadership with an emphasis on workforce education.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then the PhD program opened up in public affairs with an emphasis in workforce development and organization.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So everything just kind of, you know, the door just opened and I was just a natural fit to begin to study those areas and to research those areas and to perform in those areas as well.
Host:So I want to dig in deeper just because I love this idea.
Host:Actually, part of my dissertation work was we had to go to D.C.
Host:to learn how policies work.
Host:So we got a chance to get behind the scenes, go to the Department of Education, go to the Department of Secretary of Defense's office.
Host:And so we got a chance to kind of see how a little bit of glimpse of how Washington works.
Host:So I'm dying to know what was some of the things that surprised you about policymaking in Washington?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Well, that's a good question.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that's the one that makes my heart beat really fast.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that's how I actually got involved in DEI work.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Race related dei, diversity, equity and inclusion.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, when I, when I was recruited by this lobbying firm and you know, I obviously we're talking public policy, we're talking politics, and I'm, you know, I take a very gentle approach to politics and not an aggressive one like we do, you know, often in the culture.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But at the time I was working for a Republican group and the policies that I was lobbying on, the policies that were being advanced, did not seem to be policies that were favorable to people of color.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so it was just a curious thing where, like, why am I advocating for policies that I see that I know that are going to have a negative impact on other people?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Okay.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so, you know, just learning how the differences.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And again, that's where God began to introduce this whole race relations with me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And because for me, it did not appear that I was advocating for the body of Christ.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I was advocating for cultural ideals which are not biblical.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, they're, you know, there's, there's a title that it's for the church, but as you look at it, it's not really for the body of Christ.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Right, right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so, and so that's, that's how I got involved in that learning that, you know, I'm the author of the term identity in Christ.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't know if you Knew that.
Host:No, I knew.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yeah, yeah, I.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I authored that term in my PO newspaper that I published after I left D.C.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:and began to work on race relations.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And this is like, you know, the late 90s, you know, mid to late 90s.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So, you know, I'm not to tell my age, but.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And you can see the gray hairs, but, you know, just understanding.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because at the time God began to show me that my identity is not in my political affiliation, my identity is not in my profession.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Jesus is returning for his church of every nation, every tongue, every kindred, every people, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I saw that there was such a conflict with representing the church as opposed to representing cultural ideals that are.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Again, you know, the Bible talks about how, you know, my kingdom is not of this world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so seeing how, how we are conditioned to fit into these different groups and categories whereby we take upon those identities and the characteristics of those identities, and they don't align with the faith, and so they align with the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And we're, you know, we're supposed to not be in the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, we're in the world, but not of the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so just seeing how we are so transformed, not by the renewing of our mind, but by the repetition of what happens in the culture.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so understanding policy, public policy from that perspective.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Perspective has been a challenge because it seems like, for the most part, mainstream in church and the faith, we're directed to these divisions that represent the culture as opposed to the faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So public policy is a secular system.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's not, you know what I'm saying?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it's not a system that reinforces the faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It actually misguides us and redirects us from the faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then we find ourselves within those identities.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then it's like Jesus is looking and saying, where's my church?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know what I'm saying?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So that is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That is the deep.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That is my biggest, my deepest burden.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because I say, you know, who are we?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Who are we Americans?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Jesus isn't returning for Americans.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are we Democrats?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Jesus isn't coming back for Democrats.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He's not returning for Republicans.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He's not returning for doctors, lawyers, accountants, all these things that the culture forces us into.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And we work so hard to take those identities on us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So public policy is the world system.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, I don't know how else.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's the world system that I think misguides.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Many people.
Host:Can you give me an example of something you were advocating for, public policy wise, on behalf of the church that you discovered that really was difficult to get politicians to understand how important this particular principle is for God's people.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This, you know, I get in trouble a lot, so I'm going to get in trouble with you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, I learned about the whole abortion issue.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you know, origin of, of the abortion issue is not on saving lives.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It was in line with maintaining racial segregation.
Host:I know.
Host:And people don't know.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I know that's the origin.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I'm saying how, you know, and, and, and, and it was in it, and it's advanced and advocated as a biblical principle.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, we're not to kill anybody.
Host:Right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But when you take that in a mass power and influence minds and touch people's emotions, the origin of that was to create division in the church, to maintain division in the church in favor of racial divisions, which are cultural, which is a cultural construct, a social construct towards power gain, et cetera, et cetera.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's one of those areas where I, you know, I say, wow, it's, it's been very effective.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it's only hurt the body of Christ because it has multiplied that division and normalized even further than what it has been in the past, that division.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that is not the church that be that Jesus is building.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That is building a country, building a nation, building a different kingdom, not the kingdom of God.
Host:Yeah.
Host:I had a guest on my podcast who wanted to talk about reproductive rights is what she defined it as.
Host:And she came on and she was a Catholic.
Host:Well, that was kind of funny.
Host:Roman Catholic advocating for abortion.
Host:And, and I, and she said, this is something that was pushed.
Host:It's being pushed by the male patriarchy is how she described it.
Host:And I said, you know, she said, basically, you know, white men are forcing women to have, you know, black women to have babies.
Host:I'm like, that doesn't make logical sense.
Host:Why, why would racism.
Host:She's defined him as racist.
Host:Why would racist white men want more black babies?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And she couldn't.
Host:She'd give an answer for that because it's become a talking point, not a logical.
Host:If you really break it down to his very core, it doesn't make any sense.
Host:I'm like, tell me then, why are there more abortion clinics in black neighborhoods?
Host:If this is, if this is trying to, you know, make black women have more babies, that does not make sense.
Host:But we have been, we've been fed a, a misdirection, I think, in terms of what, what this abortion really is about.
Host:And you're right, it's, it's one of those topics that's hard to deal with.
Host:And so is racism.
Host:You know, I did.
Host:My, my first ever published book was a Bible study on healing race in America.
Host:And it just didn't take off until the George Floyd murder happened all of a sudden because my church body is mostly like 90% white.
Host:Like, how do we talk about race in a, in a Christian context?
Host:And I approach race from.
Host:You have to understand that racism is Satan's tool to keep us divided.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Come on.
Host:No, no, who the real enemy is is not your white.
Host:Your white or black counterpart is Satan.
Host:And Satan is very good at keeping us fighting about something that is, that is not important.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yeah, and, and, and, and something that is fundamentally the faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, you know, the, the, the Jesus is not returning for white people, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Black people, Asian, you know, he's returning for his church, which is all of that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But culture divides us into these groups and we normalize that division.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And meanwhile, Jesus is still building his church.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He's still acknowledging all of us not as Americans, not as a cultural, as a social construct, but those of us who can connect with the body.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, First Corinthians, was it 12?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, how can I say that this person, this part is not that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and in addition to that, I think many of us, we can't get our needs met because we are looking through this lens of race, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:When the body of Christ, when the body, when the Bible talks about how we are jointly fit together.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so as a workforce development expert, work leadership, I look at an organization, I look at all the different pieces and are the relevant pieces there to make the body work.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And if you are, if you have.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Well, I'm only giving week because I, my, one of my research studies, my first one I did, you know, as a, as an Undergrad, I'm a McNair Scholar, so that I was prepped for graduate work as an undergrad.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And my first study was the Social and Psych.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's a long title.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Social and Psychological effects of Western Culture on Race Relations and Individual purpose in the Christian Community.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Meaning are all of your people of color, for example, white churches?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are all of your people of color just cleaning bathrooms?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are there people in leadership?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are they using their gifts?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:What they are, what they are?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They're God given gifts, talents and abilities.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But, or is it, or is it aligned like the culture?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then when you look at the workforce as well, you know, people are serving.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You've got very few leaders when they have that leadership ability, when they have knowledge, skills and abilities that help to transform and Move your organization forward.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But they're.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They're cleaning toilets, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you know what I'm saying?
Host:I do.
Host:When I would talk to churches, I would mostly white churches in black neighborhoods, and they said, why can't we get our community to come?
Host:I'm like, well, because when people walk in the door, they don't see themselves in leadership.
Host:And.
Host:And I said, it's hard.
Host:Nobody wants to be the Jackie Robinson or your congregation.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And why do we think that way?
Host:Right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because culture, because our culture shapes and conditions us and the.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:In the body of Christ as opposed to being the leader.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They're modeling the world, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, and.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I mean, I think about, you know, the, the implications of that when we stand before God, you know, who are you?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, who are you?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:What, what did you model and what, what did you represent?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How did you build my people?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How did you build my church?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How did you influence my church?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I ask leaders all the time, how would God rate your ability?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I'm talking white, black, Asian, Hispanic.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How would God rate your ability with being able to cross racial lines in a segregated.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Racial.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:In a segregated culture?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because we are still very much segregated, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You can look at the various systems and see how we're separated by race.
Host:So the new code word that creates tension in culture is dei.
Host:And I was looking at your profile, like, how do you, how do you talk about DEI today in this culture when DEI has been so villainized to be.
Host:You're obviously just racist, and this is a racist process.
Host:When I've heard people who do DEI very, I mean, all across the board, some people talk about.
Host:It's about belonging.
Host:How do you create a space for people to belong in your organization, which I take is a positive way to look at it, but some do it the opposite way.
Host:So how do you talk about that in a workforce development?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, years ago, it was called multiculturalism.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:At some point, it was called race relations.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Notably, over the last, I would say less than 10 years, it became really DEI.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But it was always we frowned at multiculturalism, we frowned at race relations, we frowned at everything as it concerns the topic of race.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so what I decided to do was I was gonna own dei.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I'm not going to be influenced and view it negatively because of what the culture does.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Diversity is every nation tongue kindred.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And people equity is showing value to others and including means to bring all your gifts and talents together so that your organization can work, so that the body can work.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I decided that it's just like being A Negro, then color than African American.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:All these, you know what I'm saying?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:All these ways that we change fundamental meanings of things.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But it still has the same value.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't do diversity, equity and inclusion around sexual orientation, around gender.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I have a specific lens of race relations and so I own it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:There is diversity in the body of Christ.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That is the body of Christ and that's by God's design.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Equity is to value.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't devalue anyone.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't think that any of us should.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And as it concerns inclusion, I think that we should all.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:We are all in God's view, relevant to his ultimate plan.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because what I've started doing, you know, since I've, you know, my background is in government, it's in higher education, as an administrator as well as an educator.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so what I decided to do is I wasn't going to minimize the value of what DEI is based on what is being done in the culture, because my lens now is not working necessarily.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, I'll do the work if it's something that I find exciting within a government or higher educational institution.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But I've kind of narrowed my focus on faith based organizations so that we can learn how to be diverse, how to be, how to show value towards others and how to include others.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because it is what our faith dictates.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It is the very nature and characteristic of our faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I make a point to say race related because I don't get into, I understand the politics.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I get all of it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I get it, I get how it's, it's, it's influenced.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I think that from the, from a cultural standpoint, the topic of race is always overshadowed by these other special interests of gender, sexual orientation.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I don't.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's not where we are, that's not what we're doing.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:We are solely focused on diversity, equity and inclusion, which used to be multiculturalism, which used to be, you know, give me, you pick a name.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Okay.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so as much as it has changed, the value of the term has not changed.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I want us to be able to embrace diversity.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Give me another name for you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Think of another name for it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I want us to embrace equity.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:What is, would you call it?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so because we have a term, we have a valid and a comprehensive term, then I want to own it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't want to be robbed of that opportunity for us to even just value those three simple words.
Host:Why do you think people keep moving the goalposts?
Host:I.
Host:Because to me it's like you didn't like multiculturalism.
Host:Why was that?
Host:You didn't like race relations?
Host:Why was that?
Host:You don't like dei?
Host:Why is that?
Host:It's something deeper than you don't like the terms.
Host:Is, is it really about there?
Host:Satan, I go back to Satan.
Host:Satan wants to keep us divided.
Host:So anytime, anytime you come up with any process that will help us to be more united, create a sense of belonging, Satan will find a way to throw water on that so that that fire of inclusion and fire of working together does.
Host:It's a tower of babble all over again.
Host:Oh, they're starting to build a tower to God.
Host:Let's make sure we confuse the language.
Host:So I think we sometimes get distracted by that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's all it is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's all it is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And if you look at my blogs, you know, I write a lot about Tower of Babel.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:My first faith based organization was called Genesis 11 from referencing the Tower of Babel.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So that's exactly, that's exactly what it is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, we've got, we're being honest, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So we've got systems that are in place that have infilled, infiltrated the church since day one to maintain this power base, to maintain this division.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so those systems are out there and they're very influential, they're very powerful.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And people of faith are influenced, for example through politics.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They're influenced through those systems that have nothing to do with God but about building power, power gain, prestige, etc.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So it's not about the church.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Which is why I say again, you have on one hand Jesus, Jesus is building his church and then the, and then Satan is building his, continuing to build his system and we become a party to that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Okay?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so we have to acknowledge that those, that the adversary, that there are adversarial forces that are out there that have money and power and prestige and influence and they have effectively influence the church where we, where, where people.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I, and I have to take, you know, courage and say this.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I think people miss God because they're trying to be so much like the culture and the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and here's the thing, here's what I've learned.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That you know, many times people will align themselves with these systems that are anti Christian because it, it provides sustenance.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, there's intimidation there, there is gaining the world, but at the same time losing your soul, losing everything that, that is about God but having a nice car, a nice house or having a, whatever else that you have to do to align with these systems to be, to get what you want to get what you need.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so there's a, there's a, his kingdom is not of this world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:There is a clearly and apparently a sacrifice of maybe what you want, you know, you know, you've got media, you've got so many things saying this is what you need to do, this is who you need to be.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and trying to fit into those, those molds of, okay, I'm a great American, for example, trying to fit into that makes you not a great Christian.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so we compromise our identity and our purpose in, in Christ and as the body to be more like the world to fit in.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So there are powerful, powerful forces that are intimidating, that will withhold our increase.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, we've got now in politics where people are losing their livelihood.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:If they say dei, that's a power move, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So people are not.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's why I think a lot of people are running.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:But they're running from the church, they're running from the faith, they're running from God just to get a ten thousand dollar grant or to get, you know, a Mercedes Benz or a Toyota or whatever.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So we're, we're compromising our identity, our faith to be aligned with the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it's a set, it's, it's, it makes it, it breaks my heart every 24, 7.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I eat, breathe and everything.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because this is God speaking to his church, saying, come out of that system because I'm building my church and this is who my church is.
Host:And you know, the denial part for the church is always difficult because when I was doing the whole helping the church deal with racism, I remember going into some situations where people told me after my presentation, I was expecting to hate you, hate this, you know, and, and be very upset.
Host:But you, you spoke truth.
Host:And my point was, is that we need to stop focusing so much on the external.
Host:Because there's a beautiful verse in Galatians where God says, God does not judge the outward appearance of a man.
Host:He does not judge your skin color.
Host:God judges the heart.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that's a cultural thing.
Host:Yeah, it's a cultural thing.
Host:It's historical.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:For instance, day one, right?
Host:And we get so caught up in the external.
Host:And I remember when I wrote my Bible study on race, I said, you know, there is a way to heal this.
Host:And one of the guys who was in the Bible study, because I was testing it out at an all white church, said, God, racism will always be among us.
Host:And I said, you know, well, I know how big your God is.
Host:I say, but if God can heal the sin problem.
Host:I think he can solve the racism problem.
Host:But we have to start fighting with the right tools.
Host:It's not about just having more conversation or bypassing more laws.
Host:It's a heart issue.
Host:We have to deal with the heart issues in our churches and in our society or we'll never get beyond the.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Problems that we're facing our perception again because culture has dictated racism to us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:The faith is not dictated that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so in our aims and interests and attempts to being like the world, we, we, we adopt those sentiments.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, I, I don't, I have, you know, I, I like to use, through my teaching and training and coaching on Ray because I go into history and I help us understand how did we get here and what, what in the culture.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, I like to talk about fundamentally cultural aspects or cultural impacts on the faith as it concerns race.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because there, there, there's evidence, the evidence is there.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Why is it like this?
Host:Right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I think in understanding the root or the conditions that we find ourselves and I think in understanding those that can help us understand how we are a party to it and how we can actually back out of that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because at the end of the day it's God is going to do how God is going to judge us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's not how we're looking in the culture, it's how God is going to judge us.
Host:So what have you found effective in the work that you do?
Host:Because we, we always like to know what's working.
Host:So what, what are you, that you found in your work that you do that is effective at helping to break down some of these barriers?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is, I love this and, and I use, and this is where I was going with this last statement.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I use the, you know, as a, as an, as a scholar you can understand use using certain theory, but I, I like social ecological theory and socioecological theory.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It, it helps us to understand how we develop as humans.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, we have major systems.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:For example in the United States we have the federal system.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Then we have influences by our state, then we have influences.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you drill it down to the person in the mirror.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:There's so many influences is around us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so what I do is I take that socio ecological theory and because I'm the author of the term identity in Christ, I flip it around so when we become born again, it actually becomes the person in the mirror and how we, we influence on the way out, on the way up or throughout.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and so that individual has so many influences that shapes and defines who they are and how they view the world.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so if we, when we look at how we are taught, how we are conditioned, the different influences around us, and we compare that to who we are as members of the body of Christ, we get to see where some of these thoughts and ideologies began to creep in and how they, how they have influenced us, because through that, no two people are alike.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so, you know, how I respond to, let's say, for example, the issue of race.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It has happened through my lens, through my own lens.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so what, you know, and I, and trust me, you know, I had to go through my whole cleansing of prejudice and bias, you know.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, one of my blogs is, is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Is that I wrote about my experience with the O.J.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:simpson tribe and, and how I had to, to not take upon, you know, a view that many had around me, but I had to through my own integrity in God, because God dealt with me through my own character and integrity.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and that person in the mirror.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I had to say, what do you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You analyze it and what do you think now?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:What other people are thinking, but what is it that you come away with when you're honest?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it doesn't matter what I felt.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:The matter was that I was not biased, that I did not take any cultural cues, any cues from my dad, my cousins or whoever.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I didn't take that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I had to be honest with myself and analyze the truth of that and then break through and go through that process of healing and change that where I may have compromised my integrity, where I may have compromised my character based on the social cues that were around me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You see.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Does that answer your question?
Host:It does.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because at the end of the day, it's the end.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's the individual, right?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's the individual processing your own lens and how you're looking at other people and where those, where that information came from and to influence you do so using sociological theory.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:We say we're, we're influenced from top down, but as a member of the body of Christ, born again, we are that person in the mirror.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And we, we influence outward through the spirit of God that lives inside of us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So it's, it's the individual.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And people love that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:People come back through my coaching, leaders who have been coaching.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:They, you know, and because I love for you to go out and have your experiences and then come back and say, cheryl, this is what I experience.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How do I deal with this?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because there are, you know, there are ways to, you know, I used to think this way, but now I don't think this way anymore because I learned this.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So learning about those various factors in the culture that are not true, that, you know, that, that we have believed and we have built this whole house on.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And then the storm hits and we can't.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You were shook.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because we believe something that was not true.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So education and looking at the person in the mirror and looking back on history and saying, well, this is where that started.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:For example, we talked about abortion.
Host:Right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, so, you know, a lot of these things that we participate in are just fundamentally not based in fact and reality and, and, and honor and godliness, but as a culture, us being members and participants in the culture, we adopt them and we replicate whatever those things be, including the negative implications that they have.
Host:Exactly.
Host:Everybody likes to be hopeful.
Host:So give us a, give us a story of a transformational leadership experience where you were able to use the processes you used to see a true transformation, either a group or an individual or organization.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Well, you know, that's actually the last one that I, that I gave.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you give, you know, you mentioned that you, you know, you would, you would be teaching, you know, these topics and then, you know, people would, you know, say we're going to hate you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you, you know, at the end of it, you know, I enjoy, and I think about one lady in particular who was just so, so she was, she, she's a leader in, in the state of Nevada in government.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I did the, one of my DEI workshops for, because it was, you know, I started in one area of the contingent workforce and then other departments throughout the state wanted to have this, this training.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I always make myself available because I want people to go and employ the strategies, the things that we've talked about, about and then come back, you know, with your questions or your experiences and where you have gotten in, you know, in yourself, in a pickle where you don't have the ability to respond, you don't know how to respond.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so for example, one lady came to me and she reflected on the training and she talked about her, how she responded to a black woman who came in and she had a head wrap on and she had on all white etc, and she said, I wonder what that was.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Was that some kind of religious practice?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I was like, no, maybe that's just what she wanted to wear that day, you see.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so how we, how we, we, we are in a mind.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I was glad to be able to help her see where the lens that you're looking at, that woman through just look at her as an individual.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's what she decided to wear that day.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Why, why be something other than what she wanted to, to wear that day, but through social cues or her lack of understanding of other people just like yourself, you got up and you decided to wear what you were today.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's the same for other people right there.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean there is nothing magical or unique about, you know, trying to figure out why this woman dressed as she, as she did so that, so for me, I love to be able to people to just break down those barriers that are in, in very simplistic ways.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:These are simple issues.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is not anything that's huge and it's, it's not as, you know, mysterious, you know, as you, as you perceive it to be.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Just why is it that you feel that you have to look at that woman differently?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so that goes to going into the mirror and looking at how was I conditioned through, through federal, through state, through whatever my neighbors, my family, my church that I go to, the store that I visit.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:How were those things established inside of you to make you perceive that kind of a lens?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it's not, it's not realistic.
Host:So I know the work that you do.
Host:If it's like me, sometimes you run into what looks like overwhelming tailwinds and you go, is this ever going to get better matter?
Host:How do you stay motivated in what you do in your career when you're faced with those kinds of challenges or.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Hurdles to overcome, you know, you know, if people don't receive you, you dust off your feet and you keep it moving.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because while I, while I understand that there are powerful forces that are out there that inhibit deliberately, I think you just have to accept it for what it is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I, when I, when I, and again I work with faith based organizations and so I, I have to, I've Learned to over 30 years, I'm telling my age, over 30 years of being involved in this work by the calling of God.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because whenever I would try to run away from it again, it was right back in front of me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And now we're gonna add this and we're gonna add this, but it's still going to fundamentally be that beat be race relations because I'm building my church.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so boy, I got lost, you know, as I got lost in preparing that statement.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:What was your question again?
Host:I'm sorry, just how do you stay motivated when it seems like the headwinds.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are against you again, dusting off your feet.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it's not, this is not a good idea for Me, this is a God idea.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is God bringing this issue to the forefront throughout all of history for whatever reason, how it has not been able to break through.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I don't know if he's going to heal and completely do this, but this is a time in a season and I prophesied this 30 years ago.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I've been doing it for 30 years when it wasn't really a thing, but I could never take my hands off of it.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:All he did was build onto it to the point of now go and get a PhD in Public affairs and understand politics and workforce development and raise the DEI and then live through the 21st century and see how all of this is going to make sense and relevant.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So it's not a good idea.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is something that God is doing in the earth.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:He said to me, and this used to be my tagline, Jesus Christ is still building his church.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Are you a part of his church?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I think, and I think I was going to allude to this earlier, that the body of Christ is every nation tongue and kindred and people.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And if you have not learned how to connect with the body, perhaps you are not a part of the body.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You just got to be honest.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and so my heart grieves for people who are in church and, and going through these motions and, and maybe one day Jesus will say, depart from me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I never knew you, you know, who are you?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You are a great American.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You were a great Democrat, you were a great Republican, but you rejected and you shoot my body, you see?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So it doesn't, it burns inside of me.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's like, you know, was it Jeremiah?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Shut up in my bones.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It just, I can't, I can't leave the topic.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And, and with each passing year I get more and more frank.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, you look at my blogs, I just, I'm talking about social and cultural impacts on the faith and on race relations.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And I'm very clear with evidence, research, empirical research, ethnographical.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I, I was a walking study, walking throughout faith based organizations all over the country.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:White, black and being a part of a lot of times, primarily white, white churches and, and just observing, not with an intention, but just how the path led me and how the spirit opened my eyes.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Write that down, take a note of this, explore this, explore that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And it became a part of the, the bigger picture.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:That's awesome.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I can't say that it's going away.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I think that God has put his finger on this for such a time as this, to deliver, heal and set free People who have issues with race and all of us have an experience in some impact of the topic of race because we live in a culture that demands that we do.
Host:So you kind of segued nicely into my favorite, my second favorite question.
Host:Question.
Host:What do you want your legacy to be?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Just that, that, that I was, that my life was, was used as a point of healing for people who were misguided by this, this very evident purpose of division.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:To hinder the body of Christ, to hinder individuals from getting what they need because they had that lens of race or racism.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So I want to be, you know, everything I do.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean, you can't talk to me for five minutes as a stranger and not know about what my passion is, you know, because I want people to be healed.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's, it has had such a negative.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Race is so damaging to so many people.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It influences so much of how we live our lives, where we go, what we do, how we do it, the professions that we choose.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I mean race even has dictated positions to people, you know, where, you know, some people aren't taught math and they're great engineers and scientists, but you know, through educational systems, emphasis on math and science is taken away from them and there.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And you know, and you said something earlier too, you know, about when we were talking about the abortion issue and why would white men want black babies?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, part of that and to some degree I agree, because what people want is a workforce.
Host:Right.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You know, a lot of times in the workforce we're guided towards what the industries need, not towards what our God given gifts, talents and abilities are.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And that goes also back to why I'm true to myself.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Well, I'm not, you know, this or that.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is who I am.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is what I want to study, this is what I want to do.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So a lot of times education is not acknowledging the individual's gifts, talents, skills and abilities.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's really directing them towards the workforce just to be, you know, labor, just to be able to be an instrument of labor.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So.
Host:Yeah, yeah.
Host:So as we wrap this up and it's been a phenomenal conversation, what key takeaways do you want to leave with the audience?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Get in touch with me and, and let me understand your needs as an organization, as a faith based organization where you feel like, you know that when you look in, at that person in the mirror that you know that you have struggles with race, race relations, other races of people and modeling it, etc.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Because there are answers, there are answers.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's not as big as, and complex as many of us think that it is.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And this is what God is demanding of us.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:This is what God is, is, is this is characteristic of the faith.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And walk away with the notion that if you have not resolve these issues in terms of how you model it or even think of them yourself, then how would God, how is God thinking about that?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:If you as a person of faith, how do you believe God is viewing that is what his expectation is of you.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And if that is you, if you have in, in get in contact with me because I've learned to be very thoughtful, non judgmental and to be a great ear and a listener to be able to, to get on the other, other end of the phone and if you're having a problem and you say, you know, I need to overcome this, talk to me about, be frank, be, be very clear and I'll be that listener and I'll be able to coach and consult you through and navigate through that issue so that you can be honorable and pleasing to God holistically.
Host:So where can people connect with you if they want to have you come in and talk about DEI and organizations?
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Yes, my website is doctors and I also do volunteer management because you know, as a workforce development and organization organizational leadership person, you know, I'm always looking at the whole of the organization.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I wrote the original empirically based theory on volunteer management.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's always been a concept and you know, through God's vision I was like well hold on, it's a theory.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I wrote the theory.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And so I love working with churches to help to make more effective their workforce with their, that includes their volunteers.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So Dr.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Cheryl Coleman is on my website.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:You can visit there and read the blogs and see some of the services that I provide.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Like for example, organizational needs assessments.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I love doing needs assessments so that you can find out what those gaps are in your organization to bridge your workforce, be it your paid staff, volunteer staff with your vision, with your mission, with your objectives, on a day to day, you know, just to get the organization running smoothly, efficiently and effectively.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:My two key phrases so Dr.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Cheryl Coleman D R C H E R Y L C o L E M-A-N.com is my website and you can reach me through the website and we can get started with, with solving some of these.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I'm a problem solver.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I'm known as a problem solver in the business world and I love solving problems.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:I love putting the pieces of the puzzle together to get a big beautiful picture.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:So that's my website and I love to entertain faith based organizations and get to know them and help them overcome the challenges that they have.
Host:Well, Dr.
Host:Coleman, thank you so much for having this conversation.
Host:It was rewarding, I think, and we got a lot of things covered.
Host:Hopefully open up a lot of people's eyes about what DEI could be in a Christian context.
Host:So thank you for the work that you do.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:Thank you, Sarah.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:It's a pleasure being here.
Dr. Cheryl Coleman:And thank you for the work that you do as well.
Host:Thank you.
