Breaking the Cycle: How Frank Lo Greco Advocates for Vulnerable Youth in Canada
Frank Lo Greco discusses the systemic issues within the child protection system in Canada, highlighting a lack of accountability and the oppressive nature of current practices. Drawing from his extensive experience in social work and child welfare, Frank shares how a tragic event shifted his focus toward advocacy and reform. He emphasizes the need for changes in legislation and the importance of understanding the complexities faced by children and youth in care. The conversation delves into personal stories, including those of foster parents and Indigenous individuals, which showcase the ongoing struggles within the system. Frank and his wife co-authored a book titled "Behind the Doors," aiming to shed light on these challenges and inspire meaningful change.
Takeaways:
- Frank Lo Greco emphasizes the importance of taking action on your dreams as a guiding principle.
- The child protection system in Canada faces significant accountability issues that need addressing.
- Personal experiences and tragedies can motivate professionals to advocate for systemic change.
- Frank's father, an immigrant, served as a key mentor throughout his life and career.
- Legislative changes are crucial to better protect children and improve foster care systems.
- The relationship dynamics between children in care and social workers can heavily influence outcomes.
Transcript
My guest today is Frank Logrecco.
Host: o the field of social work in: Host:Throughout his professional journey, he has held various roles within the child protection sector including positions of fostering, programming, program management and the ownership and operation of a private agency in Ontario.
Host:However, a tragic accident led to tragic event led to a change in his professional focus.
Host:Currently, Frank is involved in the operation of a complex needs home for individual adults as well as a home care and advocacy group.
Host:Additionally, he is owner of legreco, an associate's counseling and hypnosis office.
Host:Frank, along with his wife Karen, co authored a book addressing the legislative regulatory aspects of child welfare of the child welfare system.
Host:Frank holds diploma in Social Work Service.
Host:The social work are bsw, msw, NLP and hypnosis.
Host:Welcome Frank to the podcast.
Host:Welcome Frank.
Host:Welcome to the podcast.
Host:How you doing today, my friend?
Frank Logrecco:I'm doing amazing.
Frank Logrecco:Thank you for having me on your show.
Frank Logrecco:Greatly appreciate it.
Host:Good to have you on.
Host:So I'm going to ask you my favorite question I ask all my guests.
Host:You cannot escape this question.
Host:And that is what is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Frank Logrecco:The best piece of advice, the best piece of advice ever received was from my father always said, follow your dreams and if you don't put them to action, they're only dreams.
Host:Wow.
Host:I like that.
Host:So that's one laid out in your life.
Frank Logrecco:Wow.
Frank Logrecco:Throughout my whole life, I've always followed my dreams.
Frank Logrecco:I chased what I wanted, was resilient and made things happen, but by the grace of God, you know.
Frank Logrecco:So that's one thing that's always resonated with me with that.
Host:That's great.
Host:So I always like to ask my guest this question as well.
Host:I looked at your bio.
Host:You have had a quite a journey in your life and I'm curious along your path, who are some people that served as guides for you mentors along the way in your journey?
Frank Logrecco:The biggest mentor I ever had in my life was my dad was an immigrant in Canada, came here at a young age with nothing and was able to accomplish and be successful in his life by raising his family and providing for his family.
Frank Logrecco:So he was always my biggest mentor.
Frank Logrecco:Just watching him struggle through, through the 70s, right through until, you know, the 90s where there was challenges and obstacles for a lot of, a lot of immigrants that migrated to Canada.
Frank Logrecco:So he was definitely a huge mentor to me in raising my own family and giving back to my family.
Host:I love that.
Host:So you, you and your wife wrote a Book and it's called behind the Doors.
Host:Tell us a bit about what inspired.
Karen Logrecco:You to write that book.
Frank Logrecco:So the book, though we wrote the book after my wife and I both having a long stint in the child protection system from, you know, having different being, having worked in different capacities, and then a tragic incident, we started to to take a step back and reevaluate the system, the system in a whole.
Frank Logrecco:And we quickly recognize that although the system, we have all progressed, the system has hasn't.
Frank Logrecco:We still noted that the system carries an oppressive stance, a power and control institution.
Frank Logrecco:And because of that, we want to look at the system as a whole and even question why hasn't the system changed?
Frank Logrecco:Why hasn't legislation's regulations changed and why does the system create an illusion of change?
Frank Logrecco:And that was one of the things that we looked at when writing this book and talking to professionals advocates office.
Frank Logrecco:So that was the biggest motivator there.
Frank Logrecco:How do we make those changes?
Host:So talk about the child protective system because you're talking about from the Canadian perspective.
Host:I know ours is probably about as dysfunctional as yours, but describe some of the challenges that children are facing in Canada.
Frank Logrecco:I think the major challenges that that is imposed is accountability.
Frank Logrecco:We look at a systematic issues of lack of accountability.
Frank Logrecco:I think what happens is like obviously in America that there are so many offices and so many.
Frank Logrecco:And what we see is so many personalities and different education backgrounds that we see different themes of theories that everybody practices.
Frank Logrecco:But I think the biggest is the power of control.
Frank Logrecco:It's not a working relationship.
Frank Logrecco:It's more of a power and control relationship.
Frank Logrecco:And then we've shifted too.
Frank Logrecco:We've shifted to where the children and youth are so empowered but not accountable.
Frank Logrecco:And I think that's some of the things that are stunningly major issues within our system.
Host:So can you share a story from your book that kind of highlights what you're describing now, the struggles and the triumphs within the system?
Frank Logrecco:Well, one of the stories are that we talk to some former foster parents when writing this book and what we've noticed is that the shift hasn't shifted from 20 years ago.
Frank Logrecco:Foster parents are held at this high level of, you know, providing, being, providing children and youth with a home, parenting consequences.
Frank Logrecco:They need to have wear different hats from a doctor to a social worker to psychiatrist, a psychologist, without having the proper training or education.
Frank Logrecco:So what we've seen is a system that allows these kids with mental health issues going into a home with, you know, they believe that training within one or two days provides an appropriate amount of training to address issues.
Guest:That makes sense.
Guest:I just was looking at a story recently here in America.
Guest:Someone was talking about how do we kind of help fix our broken foster care system?
Guest:And they said part of the problem is our government has the technology to put everything in computers so that there's.
Guest:It's easily cross referenced and there's better accountability.
Guest:The problem is most of our records are still handwritten, so there's just these stacks and stacks of folders.
Guest:Would, you know, maybe kids who at risk were in a bad situation, but no one discovers it because no one's going through all the mountains of paperwork to identify when there's a problem in the system or a problem with a particular parent or protecting a child.
Guest:What are your thoughts about just the outdatedness of our system?
Frank Logrecco:I.
Frank Logrecco:I agree.
Frank Logrecco:I agree.
Frank Logrecco:I think we have the same principle here.
Frank Logrecco:Everything is written out and then it gets transferred into a computer.
Frank Logrecco:But I think things get left out.
Frank Logrecco:I think the documents that are written are written from somebody's lens and who's policing.
Frank Logrecco:Who's policing the workers?
Frank Logrecco:Right.
Frank Logrecco:And I think that's the biggest issue.
Frank Logrecco:Right.
Frank Logrecco:It's all, It's.
Frank Logrecco:It's all subjective notes.
Frank Logrecco:And if you have a good relationship with somebody, your notes will be written very differently than another youth that you don't have a good relationship with.
Frank Logrecco:So how accurate are these notes?
Karen Logrecco:Right.
Karen Logrecco:I know here in America, sometimes the goal of our foster care system is to reunite kids with families as quickly as possible.
Karen Logrecco:I've had several guests on my podcast talk about the foster care system here.
Karen Logrecco:And what they said is it's really not designed to find a suitable.
Karen Logrecco:It's supposed to be finding a suitable relative to put the kids with as soon as possible, but we don't do that.
Karen Logrecco:There's more money to be made by keeping kids in the system versus reuniting with family members.
Karen Logrecco:Have you discovered some of that struggle in your area as well?
Frank Logrecco:We have.
Frank Logrecco:We have.
Frank Logrecco:So when we.
Frank Logrecco:When we look at the system itself, there is such a huge financial benefit to it that it is in the best interest of children's aid society to keep children and youth in the system because of the revenue it generates.
Frank Logrecco:Let's look at this way.
Frank Logrecco:If we have an organization that has, say, 20 kids in there, the ministry is paying roughly with those 20 kids, and I'm not very good at math, but say $130 a day to maybe $180, and that organization is roughly profiting per month quite a bit of dollars, and they pay their expenses.
Frank Logrecco:There's a huge profit that can be brought back to the families of these children that are having mental health issues, have been disruptive in the community to support them in health at a lower cost.
Frank Logrecco:And this is not being done why?
Frank Logrecco:And since, since that we've evolved tremendously, bring that money back into the families, you know, help them internally and let's cut out the the middle people.
Karen Logrecco:I'm curious, as I look at your background, you said that that a tragic event led you to change your professional focus.
Karen Logrecco:Tell us a little bit about what led you to this dispassionate you have for the child protective system.
Frank Logrecco:It happened so quick.
Frank Logrecco:We were a striving agency.
Frank Logrecco:We started to help children, youth.
Frank Logrecco:We got creative.
Frank Logrecco:We were always giving the youths things that they needed and wanted to make us different from other agencies.
Frank Logrecco:We spent thousands and thousands of dollars in helping, you know, children and youth from getting them involved in major recreational activities in a second from football to baseball to hockey, equipment, bikes.
Frank Logrecco:Because if we were had to go through the channels of the societies, we would always need to put in the paperwork.
Frank Logrecco:And that was a lengthy process.
Frank Logrecco:So we continue to help these individuals grow and foster growth through different activities.
Frank Logrecco:A few years ago we received an intake package which is basically a package for admissions.
Frank Logrecco:And we decided that he was an appropriate fit.
Frank Logrecco:But I guess this individual was more troubled than those reports let on.
Frank Logrecco:And because of that he ended up murdering another youth.
Host:Wow.
Frank Logrecco:In the home fifth estate got era this and there was a huge controversy investigation from Bob McEwen who was one of the investigator reporters.
Frank Logrecco:Unfortunately, when it comes to legal issues you're always directed not to speak, not to have conversation until these legal proceedings are done with.
Frank Logrecco:And unfortunately we never had our opportunity to speak to Bob McEwen.
Frank Logrecco:Although I have major emails back and forth later on saying hey, let's chat.
Frank Logrecco:You know what you said is inaccurate.
Frank Logrecco:What you're deeming to an investigative call self investigative journalist, you're not providing the proper context and it's very narrow minded context.
Frank Logrecco:So this is where it led me to this path of pursuing advocacy and helping families and children and youth in care to help support them because they don't have those supports.
Frank Logrecco:You know, from the Ombudsman's office to the advocate's office, it's still a government agency.
Frank Logrecco:It's not a hands off agency supporting these individuals.
Frank Logrecco:So there's a lot of hoops that you need to sort of jump to get the supports you need.
Karen Logrecco:Sure.
Karen Logrecco:As you think about the stories in the book, I'm sure People are curious.
Karen Logrecco:How did you gather those stories and is there a particular story that was particularly moving to you from the book?
Frank Logrecco:Yeah, it was speaking to some of the families.
Frank Logrecco:There was a lot of stories that were very molding to me and to my wife and I think particularly was the indigenous women that we spoke to how things as a foster parent, as a person who was sexually assaulted and was part of the residential.
Frank Logrecco:She indicated to me that these practices still go on.
Frank Logrecco:And although that through a government lens indigenous population has come forward.
Frank Logrecco:Her as an indigenous woman was always belittled as a foster parent, she was provided the proper supports.
Frank Logrecco:She was accused of things which at certain times she was, you know, where she.
Frank Logrecco:She said that she had enough and she became explosive because she wasn't.
Frank Logrecco:She was always looked at as an individual that that required supports herself that was struggling with mental health.
Frank Logrecco:So it was pretty interesting to.
Frank Logrecco:To get her side of the story.
Karen Logrecco:I know I've done several podcasts on this topic.
Karen Logrecco:I know some of the things that have come out from my interviews with people who are in the foster care system is there are several challenging aspects of it here in America and it's probably the same in Canada.
Karen Logrecco:At 18, you age out of the system and if you haven't adopted or found a place to go at 18, you just can't kicked out of the foster care system when you're off on your own.
Karen Logrecco:I've also discovered that education, because you're always moving around is sporadic at best.
Karen Logrecco:And a lot of kids who are in the program don't have a good solid education background because they keep moving so much.
Karen Logrecco:And you talk about there's a lot of trouble screening foster care parents to make sure that they the homes you're putting kids in are safe and, and not predatory.
Karen Logrecco:What as you reveal kind of all the things that are you're dealing with and you've discovered.
Karen Logrecco:What do you hope people take away from reading your book?
Frank Logrecco:What I truly hope that people take away from from the book when dealing with professionals is is that as a professional you should be able to challenge people policies, regulations, be able to challenge people and what your beliefs are.
Frank Logrecco:And that's the biggest thing that I hope that I that people take away from this book saying that, you know, we've evolved 20 years to today, but the system hasn't changed from the past.
Frank Logrecco:And in order to get and it's very.
Frank Logrecco:See when we're dealing with government, it's always easy to create an illusion.
Frank Logrecco:It's, you know, they, they put on paper this beautiful black and white scripture legislation rules.
Frank Logrecco:But when you're dealing with a population and people humanistically, it's impossible.
Frank Logrecco:And I think that's the biggest take from this.
Frank Logrecco:Know your.
Frank Logrecco:It's for people to know the individuals that they're working with and the struggles.
Frank Logrecco:You're welcoming a youth into your house, know who they really are.
Frank Logrecco:You're reading somebody else's report and it's very dangerous.
Frank Logrecco:Here's, here's critical one for you is our legislation says that foster homes could have four individuals in a home with different types.
Frank Logrecco:Not common.
Frank Logrecco:When you're dealing with.
Frank Logrecco:You're.
Frank Logrecco:You're bringing home four different individuals into your home.
Frank Logrecco:You have a shift in demographics, you have a shift in personality, you have a shift in mental health issues.
Frank Logrecco:Why would the legislation not be changed to have no more than one or two people in that household to safeguard and to avoid any future incidences?
Frank Logrecco:It doesn't make sense.
Frank Logrecco:And this is something that foster parents or professionals need to quickly look at, even including our Ministry of Social Services.
Frank Logrecco:Why hasn't attacked and a legislation that is so easy to change have not been changed.
Frank Logrecco:Why would you jeopardize other children and youth to have more than four people kids or youth in a home where awols occur, sexual assaults occur, assaults occur.
Frank Logrecco:And I don't know about America, but in Canada, a lot of our foster parents are women, our mothers.
Frank Logrecco:So you don't have a male dominant figure in, in that household because he's either working full time or not in the picture.
Karen Logrecco:Right.
Frank Logrecco:You know, it's a breeding ground for disaster.
Karen Logrecco:Oh, it is.
Karen Logrecco:Especially when you're talking about kids that have so a lot of trauma in.
Host:Their life and you're now don't have.
Karen Logrecco:The support to make sure that they're safe, you're safe.
Karen Logrecco:And the kids that your other kids.
Host:In the house are also safe.
Frank Logrecco:Yep.
Frank Logrecco:So.
Frank Logrecco:And we've seen this time and time again.
Frank Logrecco:Right.
Frank Logrecco:Here's an interesting thing.
Frank Logrecco:And we go back to, you know, the death of this youth in our organization.
Frank Logrecco:And we placed a kid in our organization that had major mental health issues.
Frank Logrecco:We talk so critically about institutions, but sometimes those institutions are needed.
Frank Logrecco:This very individual that was in our home was in custody and, and while in an institution where he needed supervision, he was able to.
Frank Logrecco:To, to.
Frank Logrecco:To seriously hurt another youth and cause brain damage where he needed emergency surgery.
Host:Wow.
Frank Logrecco:Why does the government do this?
Frank Logrecco:Why does.
Frank Logrecco:Does the child protection system do this?
Frank Logrecco:And that's the biggest question.
Karen Logrecco:So if I put you in charge of the system for A day.
Karen Logrecco:What are, what are immediate changes you would make to the system to improve it?
Frank Logrecco:I would revamp the whole legislation system.
Frank Logrecco:I would reduce the amount of kids in a home and group homes.
Frank Logrecco:I would ensure that somebody is actually policing the children's aid society.
Frank Logrecco:I would, instead of having a huge umbrella of ministry offices, I would quickly revamp it to one centralized place including child protection.
Frank Logrecco:So that means that there would be one intake department for children's aid society that filters children out to the society to a different Jonesy society.
Frank Logrecco:And there's accountability here.
Frank Logrecco:That's what I would do.
Frank Logrecco:The what people don't understand is no one's overseeing the child protection system.
Frank Logrecco:There is no at arm's length system to review other children's day societies.
Frank Logrecco:And I think that's the biggest challenge.
Karen Logrecco:I'm curious, Frank, what feedback have you received so far from your book?
Frank Logrecco:I received some positive feedback from for my book.
Frank Logrecco:It's opened a lot of eyes.
Frank Logrecco:It's written in.
Frank Logrecco:This is my first book my wife and I ever wrote.
Frank Logrecco:We're looking at doing a documentary.
Frank Logrecco:The feedback that we received was that individuals weren't aware of what was going on.
Frank Logrecco:They're very blind to hear one side and not a full spectrum of different professionals from a different lens.
Frank Logrecco:And that was the biggest thing.
Karen Logrecco:So you have any future projects along the same lines in the future?
Frank Logrecco:Yeah.
Frank Logrecco:So we were looking at doing a documentary.
Frank Logrecco:We were in the process of writing a script and doing a documentary of this book that highlights different types of chain of events from our initial start in fostering to where we are today and including all the trials and tribulations of the child welfare system.
Karen Logrecco:So Frank, I love to ask my guest this question as well.
Karen Logrecco:What do you want your legacy to be?
Frank Logrecco:Wow.
Frank Logrecco:What would I want My legacy?
Frank Logrecco:I want my legacy to be.
Frank Logrecco:I'd like my legacy to be a strong advocate of people that are marginalized and leave that behind to make the proper changes, things that are realistic for people.
Frank Logrecco:I think that is the biggest legacy.
Frank Logrecco:I want to leave this world better than what it is today.
Guest:That's awesome.
Karen Logrecco:I love to give my audience, especially topics like this, some action items.
Karen Logrecco:So if you were telling the audience things that they can do in their area to help protect, to help improve the child protective system, what are some suggestions that the audience can do can involve them to make a difference in their community?
Frank Logrecco:Reach out to your governor, your senate, reach out to our municipal politicians here.
Frank Logrecco:Provincial government here in Canada is the biggest thing.
Frank Logrecco:People need to start challenging the narratives.
Frank Logrecco:People need to start looking at things with different lenses.
Frank Logrecco:I think people today have grown because of the Internet, but they're afraid to speak.
Frank Logrecco:We have that, you know, individuals feel they have to be censored if something doesn't.
Frank Logrecco:You know, one thing that I've always learned, if your gut says something's not right, question it.
Frank Logrecco:And I think it's important for people to question things, question professionals in power.
Frank Logrecco:And you see it happening here.
Frank Logrecco:We, it's funny, in the last few years I've been watching out in the states, these auditors that audit the police and you know, that trend sort of has started coming here of, you know, auditing the police and reviewing the police and things, making sure that their rights don't get infringed and, and people need to start challenging the narratives of the child protection system, the policies, the legislation that don't make sense.
Karen Logrecco:Right.
Frank Logrecco:And I think it's critical that people do that.
Karen Logrecco:So, Frank, where can people find your book behind the doors and connect with you on social media?
Frank Logrecco:So people could purchase a book on outskirts, individuals could purchase the book on Amazon.
Frank Logrecco:We do have, we will be going into Indigo in the next two months.
Frank Logrecco:So Indigo will be carrying our book as of March.
Frank Logrecco:So there's a.
Frank Logrecco:So those are the places that the general public could pick up those books.
Karen Logrecco:Well, Frank, thanks so much for kind of pulling the veil back for us to kind of think about something to put on our hearts and our minds and in our prayers to find a way to protect these vulnerable, delicate children who are so valuable to us into our future.
Karen Logrecco:So thank you for what you do and for the advocacy and the eyes opening opportunities you've given us to think about how we can come alongside in the systems that are, that are broken.
Frank Logrecco:And help fix those systems.
Frank Logrecco:Well, thank you for having me on your, your podcast.
Frank Logrecco:I'm greatly appreciate it.
Frank Logrecco:Thank you so much and I look forward to speaking to you again.
Karen Logrecco:Definitely, Frank.
