Transforming Lives Through Hospitality: A Conversation with Annie McCune

Host: 00:00:59

My guest today is Annie McCune.

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Annie grew up in western New York.

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She graduated from Dartmouth College with a degree in geography and urban studies as a certificate in executive leadership.

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She's a wife, mother and grandmother.

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Her book Practicing the Joy and Grace of Loving Strangers shares some of her stories of both being a guest and a host to those who need hospitality childy in convenient and inconvenient ways.

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She's delighted to encourage others to understand we don't need printerous perfect homes or meals to be hospitable to those around us.

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She's also served on many boards, including public school boards, the Buffalo Olmstead Parks Conservative conservators and E.

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Learzer Wheelock Security in Dartmouth College and help run events and have had city, state and worldwide impact.

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She enjoys walking, traveling, gardens, birds, redemptive stories and practicing hospitality with those who show up at her door.

Host: 00:02:02

We welcome Annie to the podcast.

Interviewer: 00:02:05

Well, Annie, welcome to the podcast.

Interviewer: 00:02:07

How you doing today?

Annie McCune: 00:02:08

Oh, and I should ask, what should I call you?

Interviewer: 00:02:12

Oh, you can just call me Keith.

Annie McCune: 00:02:15

Okay.

Annie McCune: 00:02:16

Okay, Keith.

Annie McCune: 00:02:17

Yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:02:18

I don't know if you want to start over, but I'm doing great and I'm just really honored to be here with you.

Interviewer: 00:02:25

I'm glad to talk to you because this is an important topic.

Interviewer: 00:02:28

We don't know enough about hospitality.

Interviewer: 00:02:30

I know I've run across that in my own life and my situation, especially when I deal with congregations who can learn more about how to be more hospitable when guests show up.

Interviewer: 00:02:39

So it should be an interesting conversation.

Annie McCune: 00:02:42

I hope so.

Interviewer: 00:02:44

So I'm going to ask you my favorite question.

Interviewer: 00:02:47

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Annie McCune: 00:02:51

Well, in regards to hospitality in life, it is that people matter, things don't, and we really need to focus on the people who are irreplaceable.

Annie McCune: 00:03:05

Most things are replaceable and that helps put a lot of other things in focus.

Annie McCune: 00:03:12

I think the other important thing when it comes to.

Annie McCune: 00:03:15

To our stuff is to know that whether it's our own talents or the things we have, we are stewards.

Annie McCune: 00:03:23

We are not owners.

Annie McCune: 00:03:24

When we remember that God owns it all, it really helps again to find joy as we, as we go through our days, that it doesn't all depend on us and there's someone bigger holding on and keeping it together.

Interviewer: 00:03:41

That is such an important lesson for us to learn.

Interviewer: 00:03:43

Especially as I'm right now, I'm.

Interviewer: 00:03:45

We're dealing with.

Interviewer: 00:03:46

If you're watching the news about what's happening in California and you the fact you mentioned people Matter.

Interviewer: 00:03:51

Things don't.

Interviewer: 00:03:53

It's hard, but for some people, that's what they're.

Interviewer: 00:03:56

They've come on TV and said, this is.

Interviewer: 00:03:58

You know, at least my family's safe and we're here.

Interviewer: 00:04:01

We lost some things and can't replace those, but people are irreplaceable.

Interviewer: 00:04:05

So, yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:04:06

Yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:04:07

My son is one who had to evacuate with he and his wife and child, and so they are safe.

Annie McCune: 00:04:12

I actually experienced a house fire when I was six, and our house burnt and our animals died, and we were displaced for a while, and we lost a lot of stuff.

Annie McCune: 00:04:24

And I think that's where my parents really enforced in us.

Annie McCune: 00:04:31

The stuff doesn't matter that you do.

Interviewer: 00:04:34

Definitely.

Annie McCune: 00:04:34

Yeah.

Interviewer: 00:04:36

So I love to ask my guests this question.

Interviewer: 00:04:37

Who are some people in your life who served to either inspire you or be a mentor for you?

Annie McCune: 00:04:44

Well, like I just gave mention to, my dad was just a great fellow.

Annie McCune: 00:04:51

He was a big fellow.

Annie McCune: 00:04:52

He was six, four, about £240.

Annie McCune: 00:04:56

He just loved people, and he found something good and beautiful and fun about everyone, and nobody intimidated him.

Annie McCune: 00:05:08

And yet he could be the most gentle, loving person.

Annie McCune: 00:05:15

But nobody was too big or intimidating for him, and he was not to intimidate.

Annie McCune: 00:05:22

He was just out to love people.

Annie McCune: 00:05:24

And even to his literal dying day where he had Alzheimer's, he was reduced to about four words.

Annie McCune: 00:05:32

And they were, I love you.

Annie McCune: 00:05:34

You're beautiful, marvelous, and thank you.

Annie McCune: 00:05:39

And I thought, gosh, if I could be reduced to four words, or most of us could, wouldn't the world be a better place?

Interviewer: 00:05:47

Yeah.

Interviewer: 00:05:48

And those were important words.

Interviewer: 00:05:49

I mean, just to remind people again that how much they're valued and.

Interviewer: 00:05:53

And how much they're appreciated and loved.

Interviewer: 00:05:55

So.

Annie McCune: 00:05:56

Yeah, that's right.

Annie McCune: 00:05:57

And then I have another woman who came into my life.

Annie McCune: 00:05:59

I was taking a course on leadership, and they said, you have to have a mentor.

Annie McCune: 00:06:04

And I looked around and thought, oh, gosh.

Annie McCune: 00:06:07

And I was working with a woman named Janet Broling at the time, and we were doing a women's prayer summit in New York City and trying to gather just people from every ethnicity and denomination.

Annie McCune: 00:06:20

And it was a really exciting, amazing event.

Annie McCune: 00:06:24

And so I asked Janet, who was leading that charge, if she'd be willing to mentor me.

Annie McCune: 00:06:30

And she asked all the right questions.

Annie McCune: 00:06:33

You know, can I have access to your journals and your finances, you know, that type of thing.

Annie McCune: 00:06:39

But she has continued just.

Annie McCune: 00:06:41

She's now 87.

Annie McCune: 00:06:42

She is going strong.

Annie McCune: 00:06:45

She just told me that she was on the roller coasters at Dollywood the other day with all her Grands and her great grandchildren.

Annie McCune: 00:06:53

But she does bold and brave things whenever God asks her to.

Annie McCune: 00:06:57

So you know, she was in Albania last year and she, I mean she, she just goes where God sends her.

Annie McCune: 00:07:06

And she has really reminded me that we're not too old.

Annie McCune: 00:07:12

If God tells us to go and do something, he'll.

Annie McCune: 00:07:16

He'll figure it out.

Annie McCune: 00:07:17

And he just waits for our yes.

Annie McCune: 00:07:19

And he'll supply the courage and the energy.

Interviewer: 00:07:22

What a great reminder.

Interviewer: 00:07:24

So what inspired you to write the book Practicing Hospitality?

Annie McCune: 00:07:29

So, Keith, we just had an open door at our house and that happened for a number of reasons.

Annie McCune: 00:07:37

But once you start opening your door, people start coming.

Annie McCune: 00:07:43

My mother in law who is 94 and a half, happens to be visiting us right now and she referred to the neon sign.

Annie McCune: 00:07:50

She goes, you know, how do they know?

Annie McCune: 00:07:52

How do they know that your door is open?

Annie McCune: 00:07:54

And where do you find these people from all over the world that seem to need a place to stay and you welcome them in?

Annie McCune: 00:08:01

But we did and we do.

Annie McCune: 00:08:03

And it became a lifestyle.

Annie McCune: 00:08:04

And so a number of people would say, you should write a book about it.

Annie McCune: 00:08:08

And a few years ago we moved to Atlanta, Georgia and I had time on my hands and I've got 12 grandkids and I thought, I want to leave a legacy.

Annie McCune: 00:08:17

I want to tell some of these amazing stories that we have had because we've opened our door.

Annie McCune: 00:08:24

And then as I began to write it, I felt like God said, but it's more important than that, Annie, do you understand my heart?

Annie McCune: 00:08:33

And do you understand how I just long for all my people to be hospitable?

Annie McCune: 00:08:41

And so it became a more thoughtful journey, looking and reflecting on some of the just marvelous experience that we had had, but also then digging deeper into the scriptural understanding of how you see God's heart for hospitality from Genesis through Revelation.

Annie McCune: 00:09:00

So it's certainly not an exhaustive.

Annie McCune: 00:09:02

It's a, it's a quick, you know, two hour read.

Annie McCune: 00:09:05

But, but it began to touch on, whoa.

Annie McCune: 00:09:10

I just learned so much about God's heart as I could see scriptural stories connecting to my stories.

Interviewer: 00:09:19

I love that.

Interviewer: 00:09:20

And you have such interesting chapter titles in your book.

Interviewer: 00:09:24

Things like hitchhikers and Wedding Crashers International Orphans in Need of a Home.

Interviewer: 00:09:31

And I think one of my favorite, because this is kind of what I do is Christian hospitality at church.

Interviewer: 00:09:38

So how do you define the term hospitality?

Annie McCune: 00:09:43

Well, that was interesting because as I started writing the book on hospitality, I thought I better find out, am I even doing it?

Annie McCune: 00:09:50

What am I doing?

Annie McCune: 00:09:52

Am I doing?

Annie McCune: 00:09:53

Am I doing it right.

Annie McCune: 00:09:55

And what does God mean when he says to practice hospitality?

Annie McCune: 00:09:59

And I was a little surprised to find out the actual definition comes from a Greek compound word, philo Xenia.

Annie McCune: 00:10:06

And it means loving strangers as family.

Annie McCune: 00:10:10

And.

Annie McCune: 00:10:10

And as I dug into that, I realized that many, many cultures practice a reciprocal form of hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:10:17

That's.

Annie McCune: 00:10:17

That's beautiful.

Annie McCune: 00:10:18

But I give you a gift, you let me in.

Annie McCune: 00:10:21

Or, you know, Motel 6, you know, we'll leave the lights on as long as you pay the bill on the.

Annie McCune: 00:10:27

On the way out.

Annie McCune: 00:10:28

But.

Annie McCune: 00:10:29

But the early Christians were the first to add the word philo.

Annie McCune: 00:10:35

Like in the city of brotherly love, Philadelphia.

Annie McCune: 00:10:40

Love these strangers, not in a reciprocal, portive way, but in an unconditional way.

Annie McCune: 00:10:46

Love them because I love them.

Annie McCune: 00:10:49

I will repay you.

Annie McCune: 00:10:50

Don't look for.

Annie McCune: 00:10:51

What are you going to get out of it?

Annie McCune: 00:10:53

Just love them like family and the things that we do naturally.

Annie McCune: 00:11:00

And so the more I've delved into that, the more I'm thinking, whoa.

Annie McCune: 00:11:07

So much of our world has it wrong.

Annie McCune: 00:11:11

We live in a pinterest perfect age.

Annie McCune: 00:11:14

And people get all nervous about inviting people over to their homes or space or even inviting them to sit on the same pew at church because we don't know them and we're afraid of them and what will they think of us?

Annie McCune: 00:11:30

And that is just so counter to God's heart.

Annie McCune: 00:11:35

He says, practice just loving that person as if it was your mother or your brother or your favorite cousin.

Annie McCune: 00:11:42

And, you know, don't save seats at church.

Annie McCune: 00:11:45

My goodness, you know, let anyone who's coming be treated as a family member.

Annie McCune: 00:11:52

There's so much that I feel like God would really say to his church.

Annie McCune: 00:11:58

Would you understand what I mean in practicing hospitality?

Annie McCune: 00:12:02

That it's.

Annie McCune: 00:12:03

We just need to start seeing people as people that he wants to love and bring into his family.

Interviewer: 00:12:12

I love that.

Interviewer: 00:12:13

I almost even think of defining hospitality, especially in the Old Testament, as.

Interviewer: 00:12:18

Almost as radical hospitality.

Interviewer: 00:12:21

I was helping a friend who was reading in church one Sunday, and she was covering the story of lot.

Interviewer: 00:12:27

And the story of a lot is extremely confusing when the strangers show up.

Interviewer: 00:12:33

And it's problematic for us because it was like, why would you offer your daughters to strangers to do unspeakable things to?

Interviewer: 00:12:41

And it goes back to the idea of radical hospitality.

Interviewer: 00:12:43

It was very, very much about what.

Interviewer: 00:12:46

We don't turn away guests.

Interviewer: 00:12:49

We have to treat them better than we treat our own family.

Interviewer: 00:12:52

And we couldn't even imagine in our own life today having putting others so far ahead of our own family that we treat hospitality that way.

Interviewer: 00:13:02

So I thought it was interesting to kind of explain to them kind of how radical hospitality was and important it was even in that.

Interviewer: 00:13:08

In that culture.

Annie McCune: 00:13:10

Yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:13:11

And I think Jesus elevates it.

Annie McCune: 00:13:13

Not that well.

Annie McCune: 00:13:15

I mean, even when he's with that crowd and he said, this is my mother and my brothers.

Annie McCune: 00:13:19

And again, he's not elevating them above, but he's putting them on an equal footing.

Annie McCune: 00:13:25

These people are just as important and need to be protected.

Annie McCune: 00:13:30

And I don't know how Jesus would deal with the lot story, because he already took care of that.

Annie McCune: 00:13:38

You know, Sodom and Gomorrah, they're gone.

Annie McCune: 00:13:42

But in this day and age, not above our family, but at least as important in our family.

Annie McCune: 00:13:51

And that's a whole nother subject, Keith, because we don't often love our family well.

Annie McCune: 00:13:57

We don't love our spouses well.

Annie McCune: 00:13:59

We don't love our children, and we're afraid to know them.

Annie McCune: 00:14:05

And that's hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:14:09

It's not about entertaining people.

Annie McCune: 00:14:11

It's not about doing things to perfection.

Annie McCune: 00:14:16

It's about being alongside.

Annie McCune: 00:14:18

It's about knowing them.

Annie McCune: 00:14:19

It's about making them feel comfortable and loved like family.

Annie McCune: 00:14:24

And that just when we look at it that way, it's not that it makes it easier, but it is what God wants us doing.

Interviewer: 00:14:33

Exactly.

Interviewer: 00:14:34

So we talked a little bit about one of the misconceptions about hospitality that you address in your book.

Interviewer: 00:14:39

What's some other misconceptions that your book tries to address about hospitality?

Annie McCune: 00:14:44

Well, I bring up the.

Annie McCune: 00:14:46

The Mary and Martha story because, you know, we do try to impress, or we think it's about.

Annie McCune: 00:14:56

It's about the food or it's about the, you know, whatever placemats matching, you know, and it's so not about those things.

Annie McCune: 00:15:05

It's.

Annie McCune: 00:15:07

Loving strangers as family means that sometimes we let them work.

Annie McCune: 00:15:13

It's not saying, here, sit here till I make everything perfect, and you're impressed by me, and you'll like me on Facebook and give me four stars.

Annie McCune: 00:15:21

You know, it's really about, gosh, you know, you showed up an hour early.

Annie McCune: 00:15:25

I am so not ready.

Annie McCune: 00:15:26

Would you help me with this, or.

Annie McCune: 00:15:30

Yes, you can help do the dishes with me.

Annie McCune: 00:15:33

And.

Annie McCune: 00:15:33

Yes, come on in.

Annie McCune: 00:15:35

This is my life.

Annie McCune: 00:15:37

It's kind of messy.

Annie McCune: 00:15:38

And I want you to understand I'm not afraid to let you see my mess.

Annie McCune: 00:15:44

And.

Annie McCune: 00:15:46

And I will love you and hope that you love me in my vulnerability.

Annie McCune: 00:15:50

And, you know, we have to de.

Annie McCune: 00:15:54

Escalate this.

Annie McCune: 00:15:55

This thing of what we think hospitality or entertaining is.

Annie McCune: 00:15:59

It is not that it.

Annie McCune: 00:16:01

It's loving one another.

Annie McCune: 00:16:03

And the other thing is, I think a lot of people go, well, that person has a gift.

Annie McCune: 00:16:08

In fact, I've had pastors that have told me, well, no, no, no, no.

Annie McCune: 00:16:12

That's a gift of the spirit.

Annie McCune: 00:16:13

I said, no, no, no, no, no, it is not look at any list.

Annie McCune: 00:16:17

It is a fruit of the spirit, and the spirit is given to all of us.

Annie McCune: 00:16:21

And it's a command of the spirit.

Annie McCune: 00:16:23

And, yes, some people find it easier.

Annie McCune: 00:16:26

Some people are better cooks.

Annie McCune: 00:16:28

Most people are better cooking.

Annie McCune: 00:16:31

You can always find somebody with a bigger, nicer, newer couch, you know, whatever.

Annie McCune: 00:16:36

It's not about any of those things.

Annie McCune: 00:16:40

The most important thing about hospitality is our hearts in that.

Annie McCune: 00:16:46

I call it the two or three feet of personal space around us where every morning we say, okay, Lord, I welcome you into my space, and now help me be aware of the people that you bring into my space.

Annie McCune: 00:17:00

Let it be welcoming, whether it's just making eye contact or smiling or considering.

Annie McCune: 00:17:09

Is there somebody there that just needs family?

Annie McCune: 00:17:13

Like love?

Interviewer: 00:17:16

I love that.

Interviewer: 00:17:18

Can you give a real life example of how practicing hospitality has change someone's Life?

Annie McCune: 00:17:27

Well, about 25 years ago, we had already this reputation of they taken strangers.

Annie McCune: 00:17:33

And so we got a call, and it was a man I had known from church.

Annie McCune: 00:17:38

And he said, so we've got this young woman, she's a religious refugee from Kyrgyzstan.

Annie McCune: 00:17:44

He said, I don't know, I think she's got a last name, but I can't pronounce it.

Annie McCune: 00:17:48

She has no money and barely speaks English.

Annie McCune: 00:17:52

And I couldn't think of anyone else that I could call, but she needs a place to live for the summer.

Annie McCune: 00:17:58

And so we said yes, because, I mean, we would always pray about things, and I'd always check with my husband and, you know, but then we'd say yes together.

Annie McCune: 00:18:07

So it was a yes.

Annie McCune: 00:18:09

And this beautiful young woman came in and it was all those things.

Annie McCune: 00:18:15

She could barely speak English, and.

Annie McCune: 00:18:19

But she had accepted Christ into her heart when she was in Kyrgyzstan, which is a Muslim nation, and had been persecuted because of that and had found her way to the US and been kind of passed from good Christian home to good Christian home, but nobody had really loved her like family.

Annie McCune: 00:18:43

And she was.

Annie McCune: 00:18:44

Now she'd been here for about a year.

Annie McCune: 00:18:47

She was a concert cellist, but she didn't have a cello.

Annie McCune: 00:18:50

And I was reading Rick Warren's book at the time, if you've read the Purpose Driven Life, and, you know, and I was finding nothing overly Remarkable in it because, you know, it's all just kind of practical Christianity.

Annie McCune: 00:19:06

But I happened to be on the chapter that talked about the family of God and he.

Annie McCune: 00:19:10

I don't know.

Annie McCune: 00:19:11

Have you read that book?

Interviewer: 00:19:12

Yes.

Annie McCune: 00:19:13

Okay.

Annie McCune: 00:19:14

And I don't know if you took a pause at that chapter where he's like, do we consider the family of God as family?

Annie McCune: 00:19:20

And so that began to touch on my.

Annie McCune: 00:19:23

Okay, well, I've got this young woman here, she's a concert cellist.

Annie McCune: 00:19:26

If I had a child that had this amount of talent, would I not get an instrument for her and.

Annie McCune: 00:19:35

Or help?

Annie McCune: 00:19:36

And.

Annie McCune: 00:19:38

And so it corresponded with her coming to us saying, look, I've met a lot of people in the US But I really need family.

Annie McCune: 00:19:46

Can I call you Mom?

Annie McCune: 00:19:48

Would you be family to me?

Annie McCune: 00:19:49

I'm like, okay, and we'll be family.

Annie McCune: 00:19:54

And God's put it on my heart, you should have an instrument.

Annie McCune: 00:19:58

And she said, well, I'm thrilled to be family, but no, you can't afford to get me an instrument.

Annie McCune: 00:20:03

And I'm like, do you not understand the US Economy?

Annie McCune: 00:20:07

We got an expensive drum set for my son, we've got a nice piano.

Annie McCune: 00:20:11

And she said, oh, mom, you don't understand what a concert level cello costs.

Annie McCune: 00:20:17

And I'm like, well, tell me about it.

Annie McCune: 00:20:19

And when she told me, I flipped out.

Annie McCune: 00:20:25

So at that time, again, 25 years ago, she said, well, I could get a good Chinese made cello for about $5,000, which was like, okay, that sounds like a nice cello to me.

Annie McCune: 00:20:35

And she goes, oh, no, no, no, no.

Annie McCune: 00:20:36

My instructor at Eastman School of Music, his cello is $500,000.

Annie McCune: 00:20:43

Whoa.

Annie McCune: 00:20:44

And I was like, well, you're absolutely right.

Annie McCune: 00:20:47

No, we cannot buy you a cello.

Annie McCune: 00:20:49

And she said, well, no, I don't need that.

Annie McCune: 00:20:51

Great.

Annie McCune: 00:20:51

But I'm like, well, what do you need?

Annie McCune: 00:20:53

She goes, well, I think I really need a 17th century Italian cello that would cost about $30,000.

Annie McCune: 00:21:01

And again, I'm just like, oh, Lord, you know what?

Annie McCune: 00:21:04

You know what is our responsibility to this beautiful moon?

Annie McCune: 00:21:07

So I went to my knees and I'm just like, what do we do?

Annie McCune: 00:21:11

And God said, well, yes, I didn't say you had to buy her one, you have to help her get one.

Annie McCune: 00:21:16

And so we threw a concert.

Annie McCune: 00:21:19

She played all sorts of churches, and God provided a cello from the family of God.

Annie McCune: 00:21:27

And exactly what she wanted, a 17th century Italian cello, which in a $3,000 bow and an $800 carrying case for it, which, as a humble bonus, mom, all I could do is stand back and Go.

Annie McCune: 00:21:48

Wow.

Annie McCune: 00:21:51

This woman, now 25 years later, is an extraordinary cellist.

Annie McCune: 00:21:55

She is teaching hundreds of people in the New York City area.

Annie McCune: 00:22:00

She's got three talented, beautiful children of her own and a wonderful husband.

Annie McCune: 00:22:04

They got married in our background, in our backyard.

Annie McCune: 00:22:08

They have been family, but I see the ministry that they have been able to carry on.

Annie McCune: 00:22:16

And she just calls me so often and just says, it's because I learned hospitality, I learned family from you.

Annie McCune: 00:22:25

It's interesting.

Annie McCune: 00:22:26

Kyrgyzstan is actually a very hospitable country.

Annie McCune: 00:22:29

It's a nomadic country, and so.

Annie McCune: 00:22:33

But it's much more of that reciprocal hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:22:37

I am going to load you up with so many gifts, and you better eat the, you know, eight pounds of food I've put in front of you or I will be offended.

Annie McCune: 00:22:45

And, you know, that's a beautiful type of hospitality, but again, that is not biblical hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:22:53

It's not about me and how much, how much I can give you.

Annie McCune: 00:22:56

It's about how well I can love you in a way that you are really going to feel loved and we can all give glory to God.

Interviewer: 00:23:06

That's an amazing.

Interviewer: 00:23:07

I love that, Love that story.

Interviewer: 00:23:10

I'm curious, as you did research for this book, what surprised you in the writing of it?

Annie McCune: 00:23:19

Well, I guess one of the things was when I began to see, like, through every book of the Bible, there are stories of hospitality in God's heart.

Annie McCune: 00:23:31

And they are like, every, every Old Testament book, every New Testament book, Psalms, Proverbs, every song we sing.

Annie McCune: 00:23:39

I began to start listening at church, like, oh, you know, it's talking about, you know, God invites me into his house, there's a place for me, you know, and, and it's like, oh, it is everywhere.

Annie McCune: 00:23:52

And if you, you go to the end, the book of Revelation, you know, what's he doing?

Annie McCune: 00:23:56

He's throwing a banquet, he's inviting everyone in.

Annie McCune: 00:24:01

And.

Annie McCune: 00:24:02

And I just began to see, like, oh, wow, this is really intrinsic.

Annie McCune: 00:24:07

When he sends the disciples out two by two, he is expecting the people to be hospitable.

Annie McCune: 00:24:14

He's expecting that worthy people.

Annie McCune: 00:24:17

He calls them worthy houses, Will.

Annie McCune: 00:24:21

And he doesn't ask his disciples to bring even an extra bag.

Annie McCune: 00:24:26

Don't show up with gifts.

Annie McCune: 00:24:29

Come.

Annie McCune: 00:24:29

And my word goes out in this atmosphere of hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:24:35

And then even if you look at the breaking of bread, how does he show up on that road to Emmaus?

Annie McCune: 00:24:41

He walks alongside them, they go in, they share a meal together, they break bread, and their eyes are open when we do these hospitable things, simply sitting across table from one another.

Annie McCune: 00:24:57

Sharing stories, sharing lives, sharing meals.

Annie McCune: 00:25:02

That's so often where the impact of the gospel began to grow, where the good news would begin to take hold.

Annie McCune: 00:25:14

And I was just so excited to see that.

Annie McCune: 00:25:18

And.

Annie McCune: 00:25:19

And at the same time, so sad that as Christian churches, there's many that are doing it so, so well.

Annie McCune: 00:25:31

But on the whole, we are not doing well.

Annie McCune: 00:25:35

And I see our good news message often dying because we have neglected the simple practice of hospitality.

Interviewer: 00:25:45

That's very, very true.

Interviewer: 00:25:47

So as the writer of this book, how would you advise, say, churches to pick up the book and use it?

Annie McCune: 00:25:55

Well, I would love for them.

Annie McCune: 00:26:00

Again, it's a quick read.

Annie McCune: 00:26:01

I've had so many friends and people who I don't really know have gotten a copy of it, and they come and they go, oh, my gosh, I feel so, so encouraged.

Annie McCune: 00:26:14

Not convicted or shamed, but just encouraged that I need to do better.

Annie McCune: 00:26:21

And I think it just takes the stories of our imperfect offering of hospitality and my neediness.

Annie McCune: 00:26:31

A lot of the stories are how I needed to prevail on the hospitality of others, and they begin to go, oh, wow, I could do better.

Annie McCune: 00:26:43

And that's all I feel I want to do, is I just want to encourage people that we can do better.

Annie McCune: 00:26:51

And if everyone just opens their heart, their home, just a little bit, it could be a game changer.

Interviewer: 00:27:00

No, you're very true about that.

Interviewer: 00:27:02

I have seen hospitality, like you talk about with the story you shared earlier, transform people's lives, but when that hospitality is tied in again with God's word and the gospel message together, it's this amazing thing of, not only does God love me, but God's people also love me.

Annie McCune: 00:27:20

Well, and that's really true, you know, and so many people have stopped going to church.

Annie McCune: 00:27:25

I don't know if you've read all those books on the.

Annie McCune: 00:27:27

Oh, yeah, the churching of America.

Annie McCune: 00:27:30

And that's.

Annie McCune: 00:27:30

A friend of mine is very involved in cataloging and chronicling all that.

Annie McCune: 00:27:36

And he said, annie, one of the number one reasons people aren't going to church is the churches themselves are not hospitable, but Christians are not hospitable.

Annie McCune: 00:27:48

And I think of the people in my neighborhood.

Annie McCune: 00:27:51

How many have ever been invited into a Christian's home?

Annie McCune: 00:27:56

And how often have a Christian just invited someone to coffee?

Annie McCune: 00:28:06

How they don't know.

Annie McCune: 00:28:08

You know, the Bible says they'll know we are Christians by our love.

Annie McCune: 00:28:11

How well are we loving in the simple, tangible ways of connecting with the people in front of us?

Annie McCune: 00:28:20

And.

Annie McCune: 00:28:21

And we just.

Annie McCune: 00:28:22

We've got to do better.

Interviewer: 00:28:24

Yeah.

Interviewer: 00:28:24

So I'm curious, what kind of response are you getting from your book?

Annie McCune: 00:28:28

It's been so much fun.

Annie McCune: 00:28:31

I have actually, I got a letter from a woman in South Africa that I happened to meet in South Korea and I had a copy of the book and she is the daughter of a pastor and she's pastoring a church.

Annie McCune: 00:28:47

And she wrote to me and she said, Annie, growing up as a pastor's kid, my, my family had the, you know, we're always giving stuff away, our doors were always open.

Annie McCune: 00:29:00

And she said I was so resentful of that and I've always been a little on the stingy side, even though I'm a Christian pastor.

Annie McCune: 00:29:08

And she said, but reading your book helped remind me that, that we are stewards and, and that I have to open up.

Annie McCune: 00:29:16

And she said, it has changed my ministry, it's changed my life and, and I'm inviting a youth group in this weekend.

Annie McCune: 00:29:24

And it was just, I was like, that's so crazy that this woman in South Africa got a hold of my book and it's changing her little community down there.

Annie McCune: 00:29:35

So that's fun.

Annie McCune: 00:29:36

And I honestly didn't think anyone besides my grandchildren would ever really read it.

Annie McCune: 00:29:43

So what I am finding and both pastors and friends just say no, it has kind of jump started me in a very non threatening way to go.

Annie McCune: 00:29:57

Oh, you know the subtitle is that the joy and grace of loving strangers.

Annie McCune: 00:30:02

Oh, there's joy and there's grace.

Annie McCune: 00:30:06

When I don't have enough room, God provides.

Annie McCune: 00:30:08

When I don't have enough provision, you know, God loves to multiply loaves and fishes.

Annie McCune: 00:30:14

And I've just seen that happen.

Annie McCune: 00:30:17

And so just reporting on some of that reminds people of like, oh wait, I saw that once.

Annie McCune: 00:30:22

Yes, he will do that for me too.

Annie McCune: 00:30:24

And let's try it again.

Interviewer: 00:30:27

I love that.

Interviewer: 00:30:28

Yeah, that's great.

Interviewer: 00:30:28

It's amazing.

Interviewer: 00:30:29

So my second favorite question asked my guests is what do you want your legacy to be?

Annie McCune: 00:30:34

Yeah, when you have 12 grandkids, you start thinking about that, you know, what, what will they, what will they remember me for?

Annie McCune: 00:30:45

I hope that they will see me as a genuine follower of Christ who loves him with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and really tries to love my neighbor as myself who loves conversation with God.

Annie McCune: 00:31:08

I hope that they pick up God speaks.

Annie McCune: 00:31:12

Prayer is not that I have the right words to say to him, but I put myself in a place where I can hear from him and, and together we will get done the things that, that he's asking me to do.

Annie McCune: 00:31:29

And, you know, if.

Annie McCune: 00:31:33

If they could say that about me, who that would.

Annie McCune: 00:31:36

That would be humbling and fabulous.

Interviewer: 00:31:39

That is awesome.

Interviewer: 00:31:40

As we wrap this up, what key takeaways do you want the audience to gather from our conversation?

Annie McCune: 00:31:46

Well, I want them to overcome their fears.

Annie McCune: 00:31:48

I've realized that a lot of people have very valid reasons for not opening their door.

Annie McCune: 00:31:53

They had abusive homes growing up.

Annie McCune: 00:31:56

They have somebody with substance abuse in their house.

Annie McCune: 00:31:59

They go, okay, that doesn't.

Annie McCune: 00:32:01

You know, I.

Annie McCune: 00:32:02

Or I don't have enough space.

Annie McCune: 00:32:03

That.

Annie McCune: 00:32:04

That doesn't mean me.

Annie McCune: 00:32:05

I don't have to practice hospitality.

Annie McCune: 00:32:07

But I want everyone to understand, again, this is a fruit of the spirit of God in your life.

Annie McCune: 00:32:14

And, yes, this is a command for all of us.

Annie McCune: 00:32:17

This is not a gift for those who like doing it.

Annie McCune: 00:32:21

This is something.

Annie McCune: 00:32:22

The more you practice, the better you get at it.

Annie McCune: 00:32:25

And.

Annie McCune: 00:32:25

But we don't get better.

Annie McCune: 00:32:27

We just see God bigger in it and we see the connections that he makes through it.

Annie McCune: 00:32:33

And so that's what I hope that everyone would.

Annie McCune: 00:32:37

But just take the challenge.

Annie McCune: 00:32:40

Open up, you know, one little bit.

Annie McCune: 00:32:42

Challenge yourself.

Annie McCune: 00:32:43

Find out, you know, is there some way I can be more hospitable today to someone in my house and then to a friend and then to a stranger?

Interviewer: 00:32:51

I love it.

Interviewer: 00:32:52

Any other projects you're working on besides this after this book is not out?

Interviewer: 00:32:55

Are you working on your next one?

Annie McCune: 00:32:57

Well, I just did a TEDx talk, which was, again, I got invited, and I was like, whoa, I'll walk through that door with fear and trembling.

Annie McCune: 00:33:06

And it was a blast.

Annie McCune: 00:33:08

And now it's posted on YouTube, and it's frankly kind of embarrassing.

Annie McCune: 00:33:12

I'm like, oh, gosh, I could have looked better, spoken better.

Annie McCune: 00:33:16

But it's out there, and it's a lot of my story.

Annie McCune: 00:33:20

It certainly has not gone dry out, probably won't, but.

Annie McCune: 00:33:24

But it's there, and it's a stake in the ground.

Annie McCune: 00:33:29

The interesting thing about that, Keith, was that speaking to this audience of 400, about 100 of them were students in Ocala, Florida.

Annie McCune: 00:33:36

I had so much response from the audience, and there was amazing speakers talking about other things, but I had these people kind of swarming around me for the day, just going, oh, my gosh, we need this.

Annie McCune: 00:33:49

Again, this was not a Christian audience.

Annie McCune: 00:33:51

This was.

Annie McCune: 00:33:52

This was the world.

Annie McCune: 00:33:54

And I had these students, these young people going, wow, you know, I wish people would see us.

Annie McCune: 00:34:01

I wish people like you, and they go, you kind of remind me of my grandmother.

Annie McCune: 00:34:04

I like, I am your grandmother.

Annie McCune: 00:34:09

People don't get how lonely we are.

Annie McCune: 00:34:12

And I think we have underestimated what these Covid years have done to elementary, middle school, high school, college students.

Annie McCune: 00:34:21

There is this whole range where formative years were not spent being hospitable at all.

Annie McCune: 00:34:28

I mean, we had already become more absorbed with phones and things like that.

Annie McCune: 00:34:34

And then we just became afraid or it was illegal to have more than 10 people in your house at Christmas time or whatever.

Annie McCune: 00:34:41

But it's.

Annie McCune: 00:34:43

But we've never really taken the initiative to overcome that, especially as Christian people.

Annie McCune: 00:34:50

And to go, oh my gosh, we have got to relearn and to understand people really need connection.

Annie McCune: 00:34:59

The research I did for the TED Talk showed me that one in two Americans are feeling physical, mental, emotional effects because of loneliness.

Annie McCune: 00:35:12

And that the mortality expectation for loneliness is the same as if you were smoking 16 cigarettes a day.

Annie McCune: 00:35:23

It's that toxic to our systems.

Annie McCune: 00:35:27

And people that don't know the love of God are not going to know it unless we begin to love them.

Annie McCune: 00:35:34

And so we've just got to get out there and do that.

Annie McCune: 00:35:38

So project wise.

Annie McCune: 00:35:40

I haven't written another book yet.

Annie McCune: 00:35:42

I'm trying to figure out, are those books already out there?

Annie McCune: 00:35:45

I don't need to reproduce the ones that are out there, but I would love to be part of the movement that really just encourages and shakes people up and gets people to know.

Annie McCune: 00:35:59

So I am totally available.

Annie McCune: 00:36:01

I will come, I will talk to whatever group wants to hear some of my crazy stories.

Annie McCune: 00:36:08

But I just, I'm trying to figure out how we, how we get, how we get the ball rolling and how we just keep encouraging people.

Interviewer: 00:36:17

That's great.

Interviewer: 00:36:18

Where can people find your books and connect with you on social media?

Annie McCune: 00:36:21

Okay.

Annie McCune: 00:36:22

My book is on Amazon.com and in barnes and noble.com and I have a website called anniebooks.com and I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook.

Annie McCune: 00:36:37

I'm not a big social media presence and weighing all of that in the balance of how to invest in the message.

Annie McCune: 00:36:45

But I am all for getting invested and I thank people like you who are willing to invite me and to share it.

Annie McCune: 00:36:57

So thank you.

Annie McCune: 00:36:58

It is about bridge building.

Annie McCune: 00:37:00

It's about.

Annie McCune: 00:37:00

I was so excited at that invitation because you are that person who is trying to build those bridges all over.

Annie McCune: 00:37:09

And so, so thanks for letting me partner with you in this one.

Interviewer: 00:37:14

Well, thanks for being on Annie.

Interviewer: 00:37:15

This was a great conversation and I love the fact that you.

Interviewer: 00:37:19

My, my sweet spot is tying everything into scripture and living out the light that God has called us to be.

Interviewer: 00:37:25

So the fact Your book does that so well.

Interviewer: 00:37:27

Really just kind of adds to the long list of great podcast guests who remind us of God's love for us and for each other.

Interviewer: 00:37:34

And so thank you for being on anything.

Interviewer: 00:37:37

I haven't asked you that.

Interviewer: 00:37:38

I should have asked you.

Interviewer: 00:37:38

As we close this out.

Annie McCune: 00:37:41

Oh, gosh.

Annie McCune: 00:37:46

What?

Annie McCune: 00:37:46

Give me a good hospitality story from that you've had.

Interviewer: 00:37:51

Well, it's kind of funny.

Interviewer: 00:37:53

We.

Interviewer: 00:37:54

Our church, this is.

Interviewer: 00:37:55

This is really important for our congregation.

Interviewer: 00:37:57

We were kind of stuck in a very selfish kind of mode.

Interviewer: 00:38:02

We were really more concerned about ourselves.

Interviewer: 00:38:04

So what we did as a congregation is we adopted a Somali Bantu family.

Interviewer: 00:38:08

It was a lady and her son, and they just got over here from Somalia.

Interviewer: 00:38:13

And the strange thing was, her husband had the.

Interviewer: 00:38:17

She.

Interviewer: 00:38:17

Her husband was.

Interviewer: 00:38:18

Was actually married to two women in Africa.

Interviewer: 00:38:21

And when he came to America, you had to pick a family, so he picked the other family.

Interviewer: 00:38:25

So now, all of a sudden, she's in America for the first time with her son, and now she's a single mom, and our congregation adopted her.

Interviewer: 00:38:34

And what grew out of that was this amazing hospitality from our ladies in our congregation who had not been doing that before.

Interviewer: 00:38:42

And it totally transformed our congregation to have a more openness about caring for each other, caring for others.

Interviewer: 00:38:49

And it just opened up our door for evangelism in our congreg that we had not seen before.

Interviewer: 00:38:54

So that invitation to be hospitable with someone different from ourselves really opened the door for us as a congregation to grow.

Interviewer: 00:39:01

And some amazing ways that God used us.

Annie McCune: 00:39:04

Yeah, and you had talked a little bit about that.

Annie McCune: 00:39:07

When there are cultural differences, it does take some sensitivity, and we have to remember to just give it to God.

Annie McCune: 00:39:19

We're going to make mistakes, and also, you know, there's boundaries, and people are going to break things.

Annie McCune: 00:39:25

They're going to touch things, they're going to mess it.

Annie McCune: 00:39:27

We're messy people.

Annie McCune: 00:39:28

We, you know.

Annie McCune: 00:39:29

You know, we step on people's grass that we didn't know, but we trespass.

Annie McCune: 00:39:33

And.

Annie McCune: 00:39:34

And God says, you know, forgive them their trespasses as.

Annie McCune: 00:39:38

As he forgives us.

Annie McCune: 00:39:39

And don't give up if.

Annie McCune: 00:39:44

If you get hurt in the process, Keep going.

Annie McCune: 00:39:49

Because God just loves us with that unconditional, everlasting love, and he sticks by us, and.

Annie McCune: 00:39:55

And that's what he wants us to do.

Annie McCune: 00:39:57

So.

Interviewer: 00:39:58

Yeah, and one of the funny stories about that family was they had never experienced a Milwaukee cold winter before.

Interviewer: 00:40:05

So we went over to visit her one day and her son, and.

Interviewer: 00:40:08

And the bed was downstairs in the living room and not upstairs.

Interviewer: 00:40:12

Like, why is the mattress down here?

Interviewer: 00:40:14

Like, because it's so cold upstairs.

Interviewer: 00:40:16

And we didn't.

Interviewer: 00:40:17

We didn't talk.

Interviewer: 00:40:18

Teacher had turned the heat on, all those kind of things.

Interviewer: 00:40:20

And so that's, like, it was actually heat in here.

Interviewer: 00:40:23

You don't have to be cold, but it's just all those things we had to learn was.

Interviewer: 00:40:27

Was kind of interesting.

Annie McCune: 00:40:28

We've had Hondurans that had never been in a house with plumbing before, and I remember watching this woman just stare at our sink, and she turned it on and off and on and off.

Annie McCune: 00:40:40

And.

Annie McCune: 00:40:40

And of course, you know, they didn't know how to flush a toilet because they'd never had an indoor toilet.

Annie McCune: 00:40:45

You know, and there's.

Annie McCune: 00:40:45

So there's.

Annie McCune: 00:40:46

There's things that.

Annie McCune: 00:40:47

That you.

Annie McCune: 00:40:48

You know.

Annie McCune: 00:40:49

And does that matter about the gospel?

Annie McCune: 00:40:51

No, those are just like, again, let the cultural.

Annie McCune: 00:40:54

There's not a right or wrong.

Annie McCune: 00:40:56

There's just different.

Annie McCune: 00:40:58

And ask the curious questions.

Annie McCune: 00:41:01

Learn how to survive in the bush.

Interviewer: 00:41:04

Literally.

Interviewer: 00:41:05

Yes.

Annie McCune: 00:41:06

Yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:41:07

Yeah.

Annie McCune: 00:41:07

And again, the bigger, the little.

Annie McCune: 00:41:09

We've been invited to these houses with dirt floors, one light bulb, no electricity, and have been treated with such love and grace.

Annie McCune: 00:41:18

And I've also been invited to the White House and, you know, where the President said, hey, come have some vittles with me in the West Room.

Annie McCune: 00:41:26

And they're both amazing experiences, but one is honestly not better than the other.

Interviewer: 00:41:33

Right.

Annie McCune: 00:41:34

And just be there.

Annie McCune: 00:41:37

Just connect with the people that want to connect with you.

Interviewer: 00:41:42

Well, Andy, thank you for this and continue to spread that hospitality message around the world, because we need it.

Interviewer: 00:41:47

Definitely need it.

Annie McCune: 00:41:49

Well, you know, if you've got any thoughts to open doors, I am open to it, and it has just been a delight.

Annie McCune: 00:41:56

And I, you know, thank you for doing the podcast.

Annie McCune: 00:41:58

I know that's not easy work on a regular basis, but you've got a.

Annie McCune: 00:42:03

You've got a wonderful group of people that listen to you and keep up the good work.

Annie McCune: 00:42:08

I'm one of them.

Interviewer: 00:42:11

I appreciate it.

Interviewer: 00:42:12

I always, always like to have fans on the podcast.

Annie McCune: 00:42:17

I'm a big fan, so.

Annie McCune: 00:42:18

All right, well, the Lord bless you, and let's encourage people.

Annie McCune: 00:42:23

Open your door.

Annie McCune: 00:42:24

Love, stranger.

Annie McCune: 00:42:26

Find the joy and grace.

Annie McCune: 00:42:27

It's there.

Interviewer: 00:42:28

Yep.

Interviewer: 00:42:29

Thank you, Annie.

Annie McCune: 00:42:30

Okay.