Reconnecting the Disconnected: Rev. Tim Beyer's Vision for the Church
Reverend Tim Beyer joins us for a thought-provoking conversation on the future of the church and innovative outreach strategies to reconnect with those who feel disconnected from faith communities. He shares personal insights about his journey, including the impact of his upbringing and experiences that shaped his passion for engaging with the unchurched. Tim emphasizes the importance of humility in leadership and the need for pastors to listen more than they speak, fostering genuine connections with others. The discussion also navigates the challenges of addressing social justice issues within the church while remaining true to the gospel message. Ultimately, Tim envisions a legacy of a church that embodies belonging and invites everyone to experience the unconditional love of Jesus.
In this conversation, Tim Bayer shares his journey as a pastor, emphasizing the importance of humility, mentorship, and connecting with those who feel disconnected from the church. He discusses the balance between outreach and maintaining theological integrity, the role of technology in modern ministry, and how the church can engage with social justice issues while remaining true to its mission. Tim also offers advice for young pastors and reflects on the legacy he hopes to leave behind.
The conversation with Reverend Tim Beyer unfolds a rich tapestry of insights into the future of the church and the innovative outreach practices that can breathe new life into congregations. Tim shares his journey from a pastor's family in Nebraska to his current role in Tacoma, Washington, drawing on his experiences to highlight the importance of humility and perseverance in ministry. The episode delves into the personal motivations that drive Tim's passion for reconnecting with those who feel disconnected from the church. His own experiences as an adopted child shape his understanding of belonging and community, compelling him to reach out to those who have given up on traditional religious structures. The discussion emphasizes the need for churches to engage in meaningful conversations about social issues, fostering a sense of belonging, and encouraging congregations to actively pursue outreach without compromising their theological integrity.
As the dialogue progresses, Tim articulates a vision for a church that serves as a community of belonging, where individuals can explore their faith in a supportive environment. He emphasizes storytelling as a vital tool for connecting with the unchurched, blending personal narratives with biblical truths to create relatable and transformative experiences. The episode challenges listeners to think critically about how they present the gospel in a way that resonates with modern audiences, particularly young people who often grapple with the church’s stance on social justice and other contemporary issues. Tim advocates for a balance between maintaining doctrinal fidelity and presenting the gospel in a manner that is accessible and inviting, ultimately encouraging pastors to cultivate environments that invite open dialogue and exploration of faith.
The episode culminates in a powerful reflection on legacy and community, as Tim expresses a desire to leave behind a church that his children and future generations can call their own. He envisions a faith community that actively engages with social justice issues not merely as a means to an end but as opportunities to share the love of Christ. This perspective invites listeners to consider the broader implications of their ministry, urging them to embrace a holistic approach to outreach that integrates faith, community, and social responsibility. Tim's passion for connecting people to Jesus shines through, leaving a lasting impression on the importance of nurturing a church that is both a refuge and a launching pad for faith in action.
Takeaways:
- Reverend Tim Beyer emphasizes the importance of humility in life and leadership, stating that without it, everything else falters.
- He shares that 90% of success is simply about not quitting and persevering through challenges.
- Tim's personal journey of being adopted shapes his passion for reconnecting with those who feel disconnected from the church.
- He believes that storytelling is vital in ministry to show how people can transition from disconnection to reconnection with Jesus.
- Tim advises young pastors to listen more than they talk, focusing on grace in ministry.
- He discusses the necessity of engaging with social issues while maintaining a strong connection to the mission of God.
Transcript
My guest today is Reverend Tim Beyer, a dear friend.
Host:We're going to talk about the future of the church and look at some innovative practices for outreach in our communities.
Host:You won't want to miss this episode as you look for ideas of your own congregation to make an impact that will forever change the direction and future of your congregation.
Host:Join us for this important conversation.
Host:Well, Tim, welcome to the podcast.
Host:How you doing today, my friend?
Reverend Tim Beyer:I am doing fantastic out here in the Pacific Northwest.
Reverend Tim Beyer:How are you doing, my friend?
Host:I'm good.
Host:I'm in Iowa, so everything's always fine in Iowa.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Ah, fantastic.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's fall and harvest season is almost done.
Host:Well, no, we only got.
Host:I think the last I saw it was like 3% of the corn.
Host:No, 10% of the corn crop was only.
Host:So we're a little behind in our harvesting of the corn.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Well, we'll be praying for that.
Host:There you go.
Host:So before we get started, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Host:Yeah.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So my name is Tim.
Reverend Tim Beyer:My wife and I, we have three kiddos, ages 12, 10, and 7.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We live up here outside of Tacoma, Washington, so we are not Northwest natives.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I grew up in central Nebraska and my dad's a pastor.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So as a pastor's family, we moved to suburban Detroit, Michigan when I was in middle school and finished out my home years there through high school and then school in Chicago, St.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Louis for seminary, worked at camp, Camp Luther Haven up in Coeur d'alene, Idaho, and then have served congregations in St.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Louis and the Northwest and Chicagoland.
Host:Cool.
Host:So good to have you on, Tim.
Host:And to be perfectly honest, Tim and I are close friends, so I haven't had too many friends on the podcast.
Host:But I have to give that disclaimer as we have our conversation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Absolutely.
Host:So I'd love to ask my guest this question.
Host:Tim, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Oh, goodness.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Hands down, humility is the number one quality in life and leadership.
Reverend Tim Beyer:If you don't have humility, everything else just falls apart.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And a close Second is this.
Reverend Tim Beyer:90% is not quitting.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So, you know, stick at it.
Host:I love those.
Host:Those are cool.
Host:I had to borrow some of those, as I've always said.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, right, right.
Host:I'm always curious when I talk to pastors and people on my show, who are some people in your life who serve to inspire you or maybe even be a mentor for you?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, growing up, you know, I was inspired by certainly my father.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, as I mentioned earlier in the podcast, my father Is a pastor, retired now, but just really admired how he ministered.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And then, you know, as a parent, just.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I don't think I appreciated my mom and dad and how they made ministry and family work growing up.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Now being on this side of ministry, I'm really inspired.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, how in the world did y'all make that work?
Reverend Tim Beyer:When it comes to mentoring, you know, I think of people like my youth director growing up.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Her name was Hope.
Reverend Tim Beyer:She's now retired.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Another retired pastor, Dick Borud, he was kind of the father of outdoor ministry.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But we'd go to camp, and I just remember his stories of life and serving as a pastor in a church and just something I could really relate with.
Reverend Tim Beyer:The first senior pastor, I got to serve alongside John down in St.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Louis.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Huge mentor.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Honestly, I'm not sure if I'd still be a ministry without his encouragement and support and mentorship.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And then, you know, I think of other folks outside the pastor world, Bob Baker, Rebecca Smith, folks that I've met along the way who just encouraged me to think differently about ministry.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Not in an unorthodox way, but really giving the permission to say, yeah, you know, it's okay to take a risk.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's okay to try something different, something new, and instilling that in me.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So that's just a short.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That's a short list.
Host:I love that from our time together of just knowing you, I know one of the things that always kind of I admired about you was your passion for those who are outside the church, those who are disconnected.
Host:Kind of tell me what in your background led you to focus on next.
Host:A lot of people think about it, but you really had.
Host:Everything you did when I was with you in the Chicagoland area was how do we connect with those people who are distant, those people who are disenfranchised, those who have given up on the church.
Host:What about your background?
Host:Has you aligned so closely to reconnect with those people?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, I.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, I.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That's a great question.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think it goes back to my lived experience.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And while that's a macro sort of statement, like, of course, you know, lived experience, you know, shaped by nurture and all that.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So I'm adopted.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So as I've grown up, I always knew I was adopted, but just really the search for belonging, it really hit me, probably in college, and then I really didn't have words to put to it until after I was married and we had kids.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I remember the day our oldest son came home from kindergarten and he was doing a family project.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And, you know, it's like one of these, you know, family trees and tell us a little story about your grandparents and all that.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And the question came, you know, dad, did your parents want you?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I remember sitting there and thinking, well, yeah, of course they did, but why would you ask that question?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And it never occurred to me that in his mind, our oldest son's mind, that he was thinking and having all these other questions about how I fit and how he fits and how this all fits together.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I think that really drives kind of the.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It really drove an unconscious train through the journey to connect the disconnected.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because I think on some level, I've always sort of felt disconnected, whether it's from.
Reverend Tim Beyer:From a biological family sense or a church family sense, that sort of translates into all life.
Reverend Tim Beyer:The other sort of formative experiences include growing up in central Nebraska, where, you know, you can sneeze and hit another Lutheran.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We moved to suburban Detroit, and most of my friends were actually Roman Catholic or Muslim.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's just the community context there.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And then fast forwarding to the first summer I worked at summer camp.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I had several Mormon boys in one of my cabins.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And what just struck me at the time, they knew all the right answers.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They could get 10 out of 10 out of, you know, the Bible study quiz at the end of our time.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But the truth is, they didn't know Jesus as their savior.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I really struggled with that experience because at that time, I'd fallen sort of in the intellectual trap of, you know, being a Christian meant, you know, the more you know.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So it was accumulation of knowledge.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That was certainly a season in my faith development that.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That was really powerful.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But I really had to struggle with.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Know, just because, you know, stuff doesn't necessarily mean you have a relationship with Jesus.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so from that experience on, I really committed myself to helping, really help people find their way back to Jesus, to get reconnected with Jesus.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because you can have all the right answers, you can have all the right upbringing.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But, gosh, if you're not connected in a relationship with Jesus and really play that out in every aspect of your life, you're really missing what God has in store and what God has in mind with a life together that he has given us.
Host:That's awesome.
Host:When I think about what you just said, it reminds me of my own parish experience, where every single sermon, every single Bible class was geared toward equipping the congregation for that opportunity, that moment when they ran across someone who was disconnected.
Host:And so how do you prepare people for.
Host:Whether it's in your own Family with a coworker at work, somebody you meet, the coffee shop.
Host:How do you begin to look for the opportunity to have those God inspired conversations?
Host:So as you think about, I've always admired what you're preaching and the way you lead a congregation, how do you begin to sensitize your congregation to having that same sense of expectation for engaging with that person who's disconnected from the church?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, I think it goes back to storytelling.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We tend to separate out fact from lived experience, like kind of like in two different buckets.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so how do we bring together the facts along with lived experience?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that's really where transformation happens.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so, you know, sharing, sharing real life stories of people who not only have maybe experienced that reconnection from being disconnected, but also the stories of struggle through, through experiencing disconnection or having been connected at one time.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And now I do feel disconnected and being honest enough to say I don't know what to do with that.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because really the journey through disconnection to reconnection or connection to disconnection, it's a powerful story of really everyday life.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think if you get down into the micro moments, many moments are either taking a step toward connection or away from connection.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And not to get super scientific about it, but the reality is we're making those decisions to connect or disconnect each and every day.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I really do believe that the work of faith is the constant connection with Jesus and the invitation to take one step closer, whether it's back to Jesus or to others.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's about movement.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's not about staying static.
Host:I know a lot of pastors who really want to focus on outreach, but a lot of times they're balancing between how do I do that and how do I stay true to what our church is teaching?
Host:Because I know sometimes there's suspicion.
Host:If a church is growing, it's like, okay, what are you compromising?
Host:What are you not teaching?
Host:Why are people coming to your church?
Host:There must be something wrong with you.
Host:How do you balance that?
Host:Because I know we don't compromise the truth, but how do we present the truth in a way that people who are not lifelong members can walk into our churches and feel like the word of God is speaking to their heart.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I love what our media and tech director here at Our Savior says.
Reverend Tim Beyer:He says our job is to really set the stage for the spirit of God to work.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And if we.
Reverend Tim Beyer:When I first heard that, I'm like, yeah, I like it, but I really didn't understand it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So the more I spent time, time with them.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And he leads a fairly large gathering of worship leaders of pastors that we host here every fall, the Christian Musician Summit.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And the more I spend time with that crew, I really understand what he means, and I really believe that's what we strive to do as pastors.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's not a matter of theology or theological integrity.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Those are like anchors in my book.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, you know, God's word is God's word.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We have a fidelity to God's word and the confessions and.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But the way that we set the stage around that, how we deliver the good news of the gospel, how we communicate, while those are soft skills or soft sciences, there is a reality where, you know, if you don't set the stage in human way to receive what God has to give you either, it feels like a bomb has just been dropped on you, which sometimes that is what it happens.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And, you know, we think of the Saul conversion experience, Saul DePaul, that's definitely like one of those I got your attention moments.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But I think the more common experiences, the everyday opportunities to speak, to speak the hope of Jesus Christ into other people's lives, which is the gospel.
Reverend Tim Beyer:If you go back to our law gospel paradigms, I mean, cfw, Walter, if you grew up in the Lutheran tradition, you know, the distinction between law and gospel, it really is in the.
Reverend Tim Beyer:In the schoolhouse of the Holy Spirit's work.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so how do we.
Reverend Tim Beyer:How do we set the stage for the Holy Spirit to do its work?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Well, it goes back to what we know to be tried and true.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Right?
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's the Word and the sacraments.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's the law and the gospel being taught and preached.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's applying that into every situation through life.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that can only be learned in the crucible of attempted failure, of risk and reward.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That's how God works, is how he's always worked.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And yet he's faithful to use us to do, to do that in the lives of people we know, but also in the lives of the people who God loves and he's died for.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And he's so desperate, he wants them to know that he loves them too, that he has eternity for them.
Host:I remember when I was in Milwaukee, it was funny because we were getting a lot of visitors to come to our church.
Host:And I was sharing with the congregation, like, the reason they're coming is because they crave truth, the truth of God's word.
Host:And I'm like, I didn't have to change the message to attract people.
Host:As a matter of fact, changing the message actually moved, push people away because they get the feel good stuff in other places.
Host:But what they wanted was someone that I call it straight talk to them.
Host:They wanted to know what does God word say to me today and how do I apply that when I walk out this building?
Host:And so I think we don't have to compromise that to attract people.
Host:But it also is a reminder that the word of God sometimes is going to offend people.
Host:It's not comfortable when you talk truth, but I'd rather have people tell me the truth than, you know, to lie to me mostly.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So that's always a good thing.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Tell me the truth, don't lie to me.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, I've worked with vicars and field workers in seminary and folks who are in ministry preparation processes.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And you know, this is, this is a actually pretty common topic is, you know, they, they see the eye candy, you know, the nice buildings or the worship styles or whatever.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And you know, my point that I always attempt to make sure they understand is everything is eye candy around the word of God.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, and like there are, like you, the goal is not to bait and switch.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like that's not what you want to do.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But there is a dynamic, human dynamic where something can be attractive or not attractive, interesting or not interesting.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that's not necessarily a matter of scriptural fidelity or confessional fidelity.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's a matter in how we conduct ourselves as human beings, how God has made us.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And when it comes to the word of God, you, I think you hit the nail on the head.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, the word of God in itself is offensive.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so especially with preachers, I say the word of God is already offensive.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You don't need to create more offense.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like it's already by nature offensive.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Right?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Paul talks about that in Romans.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But stepping back and letting God's word do its, do its work and putting our trust in the fact that that's how God has worked for millennia.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And the Word becomes flesh, it becomes human, like us.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And this is, I'm actually preaching through a series right now.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And this is how faith works.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's not just a spiritual experience with me and Jesus.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's a communal experience.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But the way we experience faith, the way we experience reconnection with God and with others is actually through his body.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, as Lutherans, if you're part of the Lutheran tradition, we have an entire theology of the body of Christ.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I mean, just look at the third article of the Creed and what Luther talks about.
Reverend Tim Beyer:When it comes to the holy Christian Church, we are the body of Christ and we are the expression of God's truth and his grace to the world around us.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And if that's the, if that's the truth which we believe it is, then it's the body of Christ's.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Not just responsibility, but it's our privilege to connect with people who have yet to, yet to come to know Jesus as a savior.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, if Jesus came to seek and save the lost, which that's what he said he came to do, then that's what our, that's what his body, the church, is about.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Seek and save the lost.
Host:I love how we set that up because my next question is about.
Host:You also are always on the front end of whether trends are coming in the church in terms of outreach, in terms of innovation.
Host:You and I have had a lot of conversations about what do you see coming down the pike?
Host:And we're always trying to figure out is there something coming down the road that the church should be cautious of or something that we could embrace.
Host:So as you look at the landscape of where the church is and what's coming down the pike, what are you seeing down the road in terms of just the way the church operates, especially in this very interesting culture that we now serve in?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, yeah.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think what I see developing, and it's really developed over probably the last 25 years, but accelerated post Covid.
Reverend Tim Beyer: George Floyd's murder back in: Reverend Tim Beyer:Does it integrate with science?
Reverend Tim Beyer:What science can be trusted?
Reverend Tim Beyer:What can't be trust?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Which is really just an extrapolation of the conversation in a broader sense.
Reverend Tim Beyer:When it comes to technology, the Internet now we have conversations with the AI, AI developments.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And it really boils down to how we engage.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Two key questions.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think, what can I trust and what can't I trust?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And then if I can trust it, what do I do with it?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And it's how we engage with those two questions on one hand with technology and.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But really it's an engagement with people because, I mean, you can't have a conversation with AI.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You can try, but at the end of the day you close the window and that's it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like conversations over with people.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's actually an ongoing conversation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We just take pauses between the times we talk and so what's coming down the pipe.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think as Jesus followers, we need to discover or maybe rediscover how do we engage what people are actually wrestling with in a Jesus like way, not condemning it because Jesus did not come in the world, to condemn the world.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But what's the redemptive aspect of the gifts God has given to us?
Reverend Tim Beyer:A couple years ago, I preached a digital God's message series, and we started off with the question, is it a gift or is it a God?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And Tim Keller talks about that distinction quite a bit.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I really appreciate his perspective on distinguishing between counterfeit gods.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, they're all good things.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Technology is a great thing, Internet.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And now we have all the information in the palm of our hand.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We have maps that, I mean, I can't even get from one one place to another without using navigation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Things that would have taken us years to complete.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like a pro forma in business now takes a matter of minutes with AI and other algorithms.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So they're gifts, productivity gifts.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But we have to remember gifts are not God.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They cannot create out of nothing.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They cannot be a replacement for a flesh and blood relationship.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They cannot be a replacement placement for the God who chooses to become human and dwell in us and among us.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And so putting technology in its right place.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I think, I think we still struggle to engage that conversation on many fronts.
Reverend Tim Beyer:One, because there's a lot of fear out there around it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, man, worst case scenario.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, I remember having a conversation a decade ago like a robot's going to take over the world.
Reverend Tim Beyer: everybody thought, you know,: Reverend Tim Beyer:And it's like, no, no, robots are not taking over the world.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But also the acceleration, hyper acceleration of technology.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's hard to engage a conversation that changes so fast.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I think the fear really catches, catches a lot of the church kind of in a standstill.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like we don't even know how to engage.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So it's easier to do nothing out of fear than to take the risk and risk making ourselves look foolish or risking maybe not having all the answers or fully understanding what we're talking about.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But that goes into engagement, right?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like the humility to actually engage.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's actually pretty high.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Especially when engagement is not about knowing everything.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And the more you know, but when engagement is really exuding humility, posture of curiosity and learning, knowing your audience.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So, you know, when you're talking to medical professionals and you don't have that background, you listen a lot, but then you ask a lot of really great questions.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I remember during the COVID pandemic, I mean, my background is not medicine.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I do enjoy data, I do enjoy trends, but I'm not into the medical world.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So I had to surround myself with folks in the medical field, and even within the medical field there were diverging perspectives.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But, you know, understanding our audience and when we're talking about health, how do we talk about health and wellness in a faith centered way and engage that conversation which honors actually the entire body of Christ, not just the theologians out there, but it honors every vocation, which is, I believe, good and godly.
Host:So you opened the door.
Host:I'm going to go jump in through right now.
Reverend Tim Beyer:All right, jump in.
Host:But you talked about the George Floyd thing, and I'm working on a book concept of what would it be like if Luther sat down with theologians from different ages and talked about issues that are impacting the church.
Host:And one thing, I had Luther sit down with Dietrich Bonhoeffer and talk about social justice, because that's the issue that I think the church has not yet figured out what its role in the world is.
Host:And then that mythical conversation, you know, what came up was our theology and our doctrine of grace and our doctrine of humanity should shape how the church engaged with these very difficult issues in the world.
Host:I'm curious because that really is a hallmark of what young people are struggling with in our church.
Host:There's entire, I think you gave me, told me about this book, Ex Evangelicals, where the tension is that young people are going, can I engage in a church that just ignores the social issues of our day?
Host:So I'm curious as a pastor who's dealing with a lot of young people in your congregation, how do you as a congregation address the social concerns in your community and still remain true to the church's role and the gospel and all of our theology as you engage in that area?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, you know, that, that, that's evolved over the years.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I'll be honest, we're, we're kind of doing pilots or experiments and how we go about engaging that conversation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So, you know, we've tried focus groups where, hey, you know, we're gonna drill down on this topic.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And it's more of a Bible study feel.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, I think that works for some, but for most, and the perception and the feedback was, well, you're just giving lip service.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And because it's kind of the en vogue conversation, you know, being accused of being woke and all that, because we're just having the conversation while, you know, there's, you know, there's diverging perspectives on, you know, the why I think the struggle was like, how do you have the conversation without being disruptive and still honoring to the actual conversation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:We're here in the Pacific Northwest and we have a Lot of social justice driven church bodies, social justice driven churches.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I respect what they do.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They do some really great work in the social justice arena in terms of engaging conversations.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But as I look in and as I talk to brother clergy and sisters out there, it's fascinating because even those engaged in sort of the more social justice driven arenas, they're struggling with it too.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And they're struggling, they would admit, like, how do we connect this to the scriptures?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, it's okay to talk about race or immigration, you know, fair wages, you know, homelessness is a big reality.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Housing security, food security is big here in our neck of the woods.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But how do you connect it to the scriptures?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I actually have invited them to consider, not just how do you invite, how do you connect it to the scriptures, but how do you actually connect the social justice pieces that are just so near and dear to the heart of humanity and how God has made us in his image to the mission of God.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because this is another principle.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Going back to the advice early on in ministry, if we're not fighting for mission, we will always fight against it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I think sometimes, and I've been guilty of this, when we begin going down rabbit holes and focus on the issue instead of the mission of God through the issue, I think we, we lose some integrity there.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because at the end of the day, the issues are important, but the issues are really, they're vehicles that God has used throughout the, throughout centuries to bring people back to him.
Reverend Tim Beyer:In a way, the fact that we are having these struggles and as awful as they are, they're opportunities for the people of God to engage in these conversations and invite folks to consider, hey, there's a different way, there's a better way.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, sure, justice.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, let's, let's, you know, reparations, that was a big word in the last election, since we're in election season.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Reparations.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Well, reparations are great to talk about, but if the end goal is just equality for all, what does that do in the matter of eternity?
Reverend Tim Beyer:How does that impact, like our need for a savior?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because if it's just equality for today, that is not what I want to necessarily be about for eternity.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I need a greater savior.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that savior is not going to come through the resolution of social justice issues.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's going to come through the hands and feet of people who proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ in the midst of those social justice issues.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I love, I love your concept of the book, sitting down with Dietrich Bonhoeffer and having, you know, These conversations, you know, what would that sound like?
Reverend Tim Beyer:I would venture that many folks would say on the other side of eternity, like folks who have been through, you know, horrific, horrific experiences in their life would say, you know, I thought it was about the issue, but it really wasn't about the issue issue that God was actually preparing me for eternity.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And this is what I've learned.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, I think eternity gives us a totally different perspective on the here and now.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I think that's a missing piece to the social justice conversation that really nobody else is talking about is what's the perspective of social justice from the viewpoint of eternity?
Host:Yeah, I love that.
Host:I'm curious, if you were sitting down with a young pastor right now who's just starting to kind of unpack the things we just talked about, what advice would you have for a young pastor.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Just starting out, listen more than you talk?
Reverend Tim Beyer:I.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think coming out of seminary, you know, we're kind of taught.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Taught to engage the truth, but we aren't really formed to engage the graceful part of ministry.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I, you know, we're built to be really great theologians.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And I really am thankful for that seminary formation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I went to Concordia Seminary, St.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Louis, and as did you.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And, you know, I'm really thankful for that formation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It has actually centered me throughout my ministry in ways that I'm still discovering, like, wow, thanks God for that gift.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And at the same time, I've had to discover how to listen with grace.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Because we're not just defenders of the Scripture, we're also bearers of the good news.
Reverend Tim Beyer:How beautiful are the feet who bring the good news of Jesus, Right?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that's really the heartbeat that Paul brings out in Romans.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, how will people even hear if they aren't told?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And how will they be told if there's not people who tell them?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And how will there not be people who tell them if they aren't trained and, you know, how beautiful are the feet, carry the good news of Jesus?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And that has always stuck with me, that we can have the best truth in the world, but if we are not able to listen with grace, and to be bearers of that grace in the midst of that truth, or just like another newsfeed, another social media channel, you know, with nice little tweets or coffee cup quotes that, I mean, might encourage you in the.
Reverend Tim Beyer:In the short term, but in the scope of eternity, it really doesn't bring anybody closer to Jesus.
Host:I love that.
Host:This is my favorite question to ask all my guests, especially pastors.
Host:What do you want your legacy to be.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Oh, gosh.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Are you asking personally or as a pastor?
Host:Either one.
Host:You pick it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:All right.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I think where the two converge is this.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I want to leave behind a church that my kids and my grandkids and their family and their friends where they would say, this isn't just a church.
Reverend Tim Beyer:This is my church.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So with that comes ownership, the priesthood of all believers, whatever field they go into.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Right now, I can see my youngest actually maybe pursuing pastoral ministry someday.
Reverend Tim Beyer:He.
Reverend Tim Beyer:He's a talker, He's a preacher type, very smart.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But the other two, I mean, they just have different gifts and, you know, to foster those gifts and.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And then to invite them to really enter into the arena of faith development.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Our oldest is inner confirmation this year.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And it.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's awesome having those conversations as we go to and from youth group on Wednesday night.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Like, so what'd you learn?
Reverend Tim Beyer:And after you get.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Get through the stuff, things, Nothing.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You know, just the profound questions that I don't think I would have asked at age 12, 13, but are rattling through his head because his life experience is totally different than mine.
Reverend Tim Beyer:But to leave behind a church that creates that space where my kids and grandkids and their friends and family and people who are just.
Reverend Tim Beyer:They're looking to have a place to belong, and they're wondering if they belong to the family of God where they can both enter into, but also experience the unconditional belonging of Jesus and where they can invite more people to experience that same belonging that is in heaven.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And if we can just get a little taste of that here on Earth, man, that would be a legacy that.
Reverend Tim Beyer:That I'd be proud leaving behind as a pastor, as a father, as a fellow human being.
Host:That's great.
Host:So, Tim, where can people connect with you if they want to follow along about what you're doing and learn more about you?
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, I'm always up for conversation or supporting, encouraging folks, if they're in the Pacific Northwest, would love to grab lunch or dinner or coffee with them.
Reverend Tim Beyer:You can always reach out my email, Pastor Tim, all one word@oslc.com or.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I learned this from Bob Goff.
Reverend Tim Beyer:I got to sit down and have time with Bob Goff a couple years ago, and he said, just share your cell phone number.
Reverend Tim Beyer:And at first I'm like, really?
Reverend Tim Beyer:He's like, you don't have to pick up right away, but it's important that people have access.
Reverend Tim Beyer:So here's my cell phone, and you can call or text anytime.
Reverend Tim Beyer:All right.
Reverend Tim Beyer: -: Reverend Tim Beyer:And again, call or text anytime.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Might not pick up right away, but I will return a message and so yeah, up for conversation, support, encouragement in any way.
Host:Well thanks Tim for this great conversation.
Host:Blessings on the work you do.
Host:I know you are on the cutting edge of always looking for ways to connect with unconnected people.
Host:So keep pressing on and always love talking to you my friend.
Reverend Tim Beyer:Yeah, thanks for the invitation.
Reverend Tim Beyer:It's great chatting with you too.
Host:Keith.
