Navigating College Applications: Strategies from an Education Expert Matt McGee
Matt McGee, founder of MRM Education, shares invaluable insights on college admissions and the importance of fostering academic curiosity in students. He emphasizes that success in the college application process is not merely about getting into prestigious schools but about discovering and pursuing one's true interests and passions. With over a decade of experience in tutoring and college consulting, Matt highlights the significance of resilience and perseverance in achieving long-term goals. He also discusses the growing mental health challenges faced by students transitioning to college and offers strategies to help them adapt. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of how to navigate the complexities of college admissions and the vital role personal interests play in shaping a fulfilling educational journey.
Matt McGee, the founder of MRM Education, shares valuable insights into the college admissions process and the importance of fostering genuine academic curiosity in students. With over a decade of experience as a tutor and consultant, McGee emphasizes the need for students to pursue their passions rather than merely attempting to meet the expectations of colleges. He argues that colleges look for intellectual curiosity and genuine interest in a subject, rather than a checklist of achievements. McGee discusses the significance of perseverance, resilience, and emotional intelligence in navigating the complexities of education and college admissions, offering advice on how students can make themselves stand out by engaging deeply with their interests. Through anecdotes about his students' successes, he illustrates how a commitment to personal passions can lead to more fulfilling educational experiences and opportunities for acceptance into competitive universities.
Throughout the conversation, McGee also addresses the mental health challenges faced by students during the transition to college. He highlights the growing pressures surrounding college admissions and the anxiety that often accompanies the process. By focusing on self-discovery and emotional resilience, he believes students can better cope with the inevitable setbacks they may encounter when applying to colleges. He encourages families to view college as a stepping stone toward personal and academic fulfillment, rather than simply as an endpoint in their educational journey. This holistic approach to education not only prepares students for the rigors of college life but also instills a sense of purpose that can guide them throughout their careers.
The episode concludes with a powerful reminder: the key to successful college applications lies in authenticity. McGee urges students to understand themselves deeply and embrace their unique interests, as this genuine enthusiasm will resonate with admissions committees. By applying to schools that align with their passions and values, students can find a college environment that supports their growth. McGee’s insights serve as a crucial reminder that the college admissions process is not merely about getting accepted into prestigious institutions, but about finding the right fit for each student’s individual journey.
Takeaways:
- Engaging in an area of genuine interest is more important than just aiming for prestigious colleges.
- Students should focus on developing their passions and intellectual curiosity throughout high school.
- Perseverance and resilience are key traits that students must cultivate for long-term success.
- Understanding the specific values and strengths of a college can guide better application choices.
- College admissions processes can be opaque, and students need to prepare for setbacks.
- Fostering emotional intelligence is crucial for students transitioning to college life.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- MRM Education
- Harvard
- Stanford
- Yale
- Penn
- Princeton
- UC Berkeley
- Bucknell
- UCLA
Transcript
My guest today is Matt McGee.
Keith:He is the founder of MRM Education, an elite tutoring and college admissions consultancy that works to foster academic curiosity, mental health and confidence in students with the ultimate goal of admission into a top university.
Keith:With over a decade of experience as a tutor, consultant and college admissions specialist and his intensive mentorship method has helped hundreds of students raise their grades and gain admission into Ivy plus schools.
Keith:With over a decade of experience as a tutor, consultant and college admissions specialist, his intensive mentorship method has helped hundreds of students raise their grades and gain admission to Ivy League schools.
Keith:We encourage to listen to this podcast with Matt McGee as we talk about college admissions and how to get your students into the best colleges in the world.
Keith:Well, Matt, welcome to the podcast.
Keith:How you doing today, my friend?
Matt McGee:I'm good.
Matt McGee:Thank you for having me, Keith.
Keith:Good to have you on.
Keith:Love to talk about this topic.
Keith:I've just finished my some of my work in college, so for all those who have not started yet and have more to do, this will be a good way to kind of give them some advice on how to do that well.
Keith:So I love to ask my guests this question.
Keith:One of my two favorite questions.
Keith:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Matt McGee:That is a good question.
Matt McGee:I think the best piece of advice I have received, just because I come from an education side and not a business side, so I've been learning about the business side of things, is some degree of perseverance, some degree of just.
Matt McGee:It's not about whether it worked today.
Matt McGee:It's not about whether it worked yesterday or tomorrow.
Matt McGee:It's about whether it works in the long run.
Matt McGee:You know, if you go to the gym today and you work out, you probably won't be in shape tomorrow.
Matt McGee:And if you go tomorrow, you won't be in shape the day after that.
Matt McGee:But somewhere, I don't know if it's three months or six months or nine months or a year, at some point you will start to see the difference.
Matt McGee:And I think that piece of advice, the core of whatever sits in that philosophy, has been probably the most integral thing insofar as me going forward as a business person and just as a person in general.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:So perseverance is kind of your key word there.
Matt McGee:Yeah, I think it's perseverance, resilience, you know, in that family.
Keith:Yeah.
Keith:That group of wordings that we kind of like to stick to it when things get tough.
Keith:The tough get going kind of a thing.
Matt McGee:Exactly, exactly.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:I'm always curious about you Talk about your background and your history.
Keith:But I'm always curious about people like yourself, who are some people in your life who serve to be an inspiration to you or maybe a mentor for you along your journey.
Matt McGee:Oh, that's a.
Matt McGee:That's a tough one.
Matt McGee:I mean, I feel like.
Matt McGee:I feel like in the.
Matt McGee:In the situation that I'm in, there's just so many people that you have to have as mentors.
Matt McGee:You know, I have, like, a personal business coach who is.
Matt McGee:Who is fantastic and who every day is kind of telling me a lot of what I just said, right?
Matt McGee:Where he's saying, just because you did outreach to this person and they didn't respond, it doesn't mean it's not working.
Matt McGee:To all the people who help keep me healthy and help me keep my diet on track, my exercise on track, I think if I had to go with one person who has served as a mentor, I would probably have to go, and I'm going way back here.
Matt McGee:I would probably have to go with somebody like Marcus Aurelius.
Matt McGee:You know, stoic philosophy is something that's of great import to me.
Matt McGee:And just the idea that all we can do is put our head down every day and be a good person and focus on what you can control, I think gives you a degree of sanity, a degree of control, and, yeah, really just a degree of control over what you can do in your life.
Matt McGee:And I think that has allowed me to kind of move forward as a business person, as an individual, as a.
Matt McGee:As a member of a family, as a friend, in kind of all those ways.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:Really good.
Keith:So now let's get into your journey.
Keith:Tell us about your journey and what led you or inspired you to start MRH education.
Matt McGee:How much time do you have?
Matt McGee:So MRM educated.
Matt McGee:MRM education started because I.
Matt McGee:If you go way back, it starts at some point.
Matt McGee:I'm in high school, and I realized that writing is a skill that I have.
Matt McGee:You know, it's just one of those things that feels right to me.
Matt McGee:Some people can play the piano.
Matt McGee:Other people, they are really good at sports.
Matt McGee:Writing always just.
Matt McGee:It worked for me.
Matt McGee:And so when I got to college, I was kind of.
Matt McGee:I was helping support students who needed extra help working through the university, working, you know, as a private business person, just kind of giving students editing services, stuff like that.
Matt McGee:So when I got out of college, that led to me getting a job as a private tutor, and I was working with students on that end to help them edit their essays, edit their work, kind of complete homework, a lot of students who had English as a second language.
Matt McGee:And when I was in that private tutoring world, I began to see that there were companies who were bringing on tutors, and these companies were charging 2, $300 an hour for their services, and the tutor was making something like $25 an hour.
Keith:Wow.
Matt McGee:And I thought I was like, that's crazy.
Matt McGee:I understand.
Matt McGee:You got to pay bills, you got to pay taxes, there's overhead insofar as owning a business and all of that.
Matt McGee:But at a certain point, it turns into greed rather than just wanting to turn a profit and be able to do this.
Matt McGee:So my philosophy was, look, I can charge.
Matt McGee:If you can charge all this money and there's a market here, I could probably pay my tutors 75 or $100 an hour.
Matt McGee:I could drastically increase the service and the personal support that I'm giving these people, and I could still make a really, really good profit.
Matt McGee:Maybe I won't be a billionaire tomorrow, but I'll still be doing okay, you know?
Matt McGee:And so.
Matt McGee:And so those two things married together, really having that educator background, wanting to give students personalized support and knowing how important that was for students, and also wanting to get into the practice of being an ethical business person.
Matt McGee:Those two things together were the onus for beginning mrm.
Keith:So being the first one in my family who went to college, there were a lot of things that I just didn't know.
Keith:And because my parents didn't go, there were things they didn't know.
Keith:If you are talking to a high school student now who's thinking about college, it would have been helpful for me to know what are the things I should be working on, even in high school?
Keith:Because when you think about it as a junior, you've already missed a lot of deadlines.
Keith:You've missed a lot of things.
Keith:You should be doing a lot of things that your resume may make you more appealing, especially to talk about Ivy League schools.
Keith:So kind of give us what are the things that students should be focusing and parents if their kids are thinking about going to college and they're just maybe a freshman in high school?
Matt McGee:Yeah, honestly, that's a great question.
Matt McGee:So many people come to us as, you know, seniors or juniors, and they go, like, what do I have to do?
Matt McGee:And I'm sitting here thinking, there was a lot that you already should have done, But I think so.
Matt McGee:There's.
Matt McGee:There's.
Matt McGee:There's a whole lot of things that you.
Matt McGee:That you can do, right?
Matt McGee:I'm sure you're familiar with the activities that you can do.
Matt McGee:Getting involved in sports, obviously you want to get good grades, you want to take the standardized test and do the best you can there.
Matt McGee:But I think, like, the number one piece that I.
Matt McGee:That I, that I think students and parents need to aim for is getting involved and getting interested in.
Matt McGee:So find out what it is that you really, really like.
Matt McGee:And I don't care what that is.
Matt McGee:I don't care if that's fashion.
Matt McGee:I don't care if that's video games.
Matt McGee:I don't care if that's, you know, being a firefighter.
Matt McGee:Find out what that is and then.
Matt McGee:And then pursue it relentlessly.
Matt McGee:Because there is this pattern where students, they kind of do what they think the colleges want them to do.
Matt McGee:I remember I was speaking at a conference last year, and it was probably about a thousand people there, and I asked, I was like, how many of you play a musical instrument?
Matt McGee:And every hand goes up, right?
Matt McGee:And then.
Matt McGee:So I asked, so how many of you are actually interested and passionate about that instrument?
Matt McGee:And I would say, like, maybe 10% of the hands stay up.
Matt McGee:And this is where we're at, right, is everybody's doing these things because they think it's good.
Matt McGee:But what you really want, what the colleges are really looking for, is this degree of intellectual curiosity, this degree of, I'm passionate about this thing, and I know how to go after it, right?
Matt McGee:I'm looking at you, and I'm going, I see.
Matt McGee:I know you're a reverend.
Matt McGee:We've had some email correspondence before this.
Matt McGee:So I know you're involved in faith and in God.
Matt McGee:But then I'm also looking, and I see a ton of books behind you.
Matt McGee:So I'm going, you know, clearly, you know, Keith is.
Matt McGee:He's.
Matt McGee:He's a reader.
Matt McGee:He's a scholar of some sort.
Matt McGee:But then I'm seeing that there's a katana, right?
Matt McGee:There's a sword on your bookshelf.
Matt McGee:So I'm going, I'm going, like, what's that about?
Matt McGee:Let's talk about that, right?
Matt McGee:And so if I'm working with you, or if I'm, you know, if I'm working with your parents or whoever it is, I'm trying to figure out.
Matt McGee:So, you know, my man is big into faith.
Matt McGee:He's big into reading.
Matt McGee:What is this?
Matt McGee:You know, what's the.
Matt McGee:Does he love.
Matt McGee:Does he love Japanese history?
Matt McGee:Where is the crux of these things?
Matt McGee:Because I'll tell you what, when you apply to college, there's going to be zero other people who are saying, you know, the two most important things in my life are God and Japanese history.
Matt McGee:And these are how these two things come together.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And that's how.
Matt McGee:That's how I really kind of want families and students to think about this thing.
Matt McGee:This from the outset, is what does set you apart.
Matt McGee:And it's not your grades, it's not your test scores.
Matt McGee:You want those things to be good, but there's something inside you.
Matt McGee:There is the God who meets Japanese history that is going to make you unique and it's going to make you different, and it's something you're passionate about.
Matt McGee:And I bet you that only you, Keith Haney, can tell me about how those two things intersect.
Matt McGee:And it's probably a fascinating story.
Keith:That is cool.
Keith:So you just tapped on something I want to go deeper into.
Keith:So you talk about helping people find their academic curiosity.
Keith:What are some things as you as working with a student, trying to help them figure out, you know, what is that thing that makes you unique?
Keith:What are the questions you're asking students?
Keith:You kind of ask me some of them or maybe they should be thinking about to really delve into what makes them unique.
Matt McGee:Yeah.
Matt McGee:So I think it, you know, a big part of what we do is fostering, like an emotional intelligence, right.
Matt McGee:And starting to.
Matt McGee:In starting to look inward and discover the things about yourself that you.
Matt McGee:That do make you tick.
Matt McGee:I think, I think in an age of social media, an age of, you know, hyper distraction, it's easy to just kind of like, be a little bit like water and follow the easiest path, right.
Matt McGee:You can doom scroll on Instagram or you can.
Matt McGee:You can kind of go.
Matt McGee:Just hang out with your friends.
Matt McGee:But our journey is to kind of teach the.
Matt McGee:Teach the students.
Matt McGee:Hey, this is where I really am starting to kind of like, grab onto something.
Matt McGee:So I think our process is when you're a freshman, when you're an eighth grader, even really trying to get out there and try a number of things, right.
Matt McGee:Get involved in the chess club, start a YouTube channel, right.
Matt McGee:And you'll do all these things and some of them will really click and.
Matt McGee:And other ones will start to fall away.
Matt McGee:So I think for us, it's really just about opening the minds and kind of connecting students and families with the opportunities that are going to help them see what those things are.
Matt McGee:On the academic side, I think a big thing is as educators, sometimes people fall into the trap of trying to tell you what to think.
Matt McGee:And I'd be curious to know what your opinion on this as a reverend is.
Keith:Right.
Matt McGee:Because in essence, you are.
Matt McGee:You're sort you're.
Matt McGee:You're like a man of God who is also an educator, who is also a therapist.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:You know, you.
Matt McGee:You fall in that entire purview.
Matt McGee:And I think from, from the purely educator side, my job is to make sure that people understand I'm not teaching them what to think, I'm teaching them how to think.
Matt McGee:And I think when you.
Matt McGee:When you make that paradigm shift, people are able to find their way.
Matt McGee:Do you.
Matt McGee:Do you see the kind of same things being, you know, a man of faith and a guider in that way?
Keith:Yeah, because so in my pastoral role, we all come down to, like, an education.
Keith:There is truth, and you want to make sure that you understand truth.
Keith:But my doctorate is in education, so I've got a chance to delve into the educational part of that and learn there's a way to teach and to educate in a way that I think we sometimes forget, because you're right.
Keith:You want to engage the mind.
Keith:You want to engage people thinking.
Keith:You don't want to think for them.
Keith:You want to open their mind so they learn to think for themselves.
Keith:And so, yeah, and then there's that counseling part of.
Keith:You can't tell people what to do in counseling.
Keith:You can only draw out of them what they want to do to make the change happen in their life.
Keith:So you got to kind of.
Keith:You can't push people in direction.
Keith:You can guide them, but in the end, they have to make the choice themselves as to whether or not they want to go down that path or not.
Matt McGee:Exactly.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And I think that's.
Matt McGee:That's a huge part of where we are in the college admissions game is, you know, a lot of people want to go like, hey, you know, should I do this major or should I do that major?
Matt McGee:And I'm going, well, what are the things that interest you?
Matt McGee:What are the, you know, we have to kind of reverse engineer that question, because if you're taking a path because you think other people want you to take it, or you think it's going to be the path that gets you into that school, it's really not going to serve you.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:It's kind of that, like, in that way where you're chasing the wrong thing and you're not really being true to yourself, you're not chasing the way you started that answer right.
Matt McGee:With there is the universal truth.
Matt McGee:And that's where.
Matt McGee:That's where I think we want to get people to.
Keith:Yeah.
Keith:I remember my first year in college, I was going to major in business, I think, and all of a Sudden, I discovered that I really like computers, and so I ended up changing my major to computer science with a business minor, which was kind of fun to do because I kind of combined computer programming and business into my major, which had nothing to do with my next degree, which was in theology or my foundry, which was in education.
Keith:So none of my degrees actually match, but they're all things that interest me.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:You know, and here you are now, you know, a bit of a polymouth.
Matt McGee:Right?
Matt McGee:Just kind of, you know, just interested in learning.
Keith:Right, right, exactly.
Matt McGee:And now as a.
Matt McGee:As a profession, as a.
Matt McGee:As a pastor, as a podcast guy, you're a communicator, Right?
Matt McGee:That really.
Matt McGee:That's really what it comes down to.
Keith:So I know people who tell their kids, or their kids come and say, I want to go to, like, Harvard or I want to go to an Ivy League school.
Keith:And so I think they.
Keith:They approach that with, what do I need to do to get into Harvard?
Keith:Not really sure why they want to go to Harvard other than the fact that it's Harvard.
Keith:So as you're working with students who are trying to find that space, how important is it for them to understand that it's not about the name of the school as much as does that school match what their interests are?
Matt McGee:Yeah.
Matt McGee:I would say that you just described one of the number one issues that we have when students come to us or when parents come to us, because I've had students come to me and go, I want to go to Stanford, and I want to study business.
Matt McGee:And I have the unfortunate task of letting them know that Stanford does not have an undergraduate business.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:So the next question is.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:So the next question becomes, why?
Matt McGee:Why do you want to go to Stanford?
Matt McGee:Why do you want to go to Harvard?
Matt McGee:And if the answer is, because it's Harvard, because it's Stanford, because it's whoever, I tell them flat out, that answer is not good enough.
Matt McGee:So there is.
Matt McGee:There is to some degree a way that you can.
Matt McGee:You can sort of break it down to show, like, what these different schools want.
Matt McGee:For example, you know, Penn really wants business leaders.
Matt McGee:Right?
Matt McGee:Those are the people who are going to generally gravitate to Penn.
Matt McGee:People are interested in business.
Matt McGee:They want to be CEOs.
Matt McGee:Yale, on the other hand, they gravitate towards.
Matt McGee:Towards artists.
Matt McGee:They have an unbelievable acting program.
Matt McGee:It's the class of the country.
Matt McGee:They want poets, they want songwriters.
Matt McGee:Harvard, on the other hand, wants people who are going to kind of be in public service.
Matt McGee:There is a disproportionate amount of Senators and politicians and government and civil servants that have gone to Harvard.
Matt McGee:So there is a way that you can game it to a very small degree, but ultimately the question has to be, yeah, why is this?
Matt McGee:And if you look on every college application, there's always, there's a supplemental essay for almost every college application that's going to say, why us?
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:Why do you want to come to Harvard?
Matt McGee:Why do you want to come to Stanford?
Matt McGee:And that question needs to get hyper specific.
Matt McGee:That question has to start talking about professors and the research they've done.
Matt McGee:It needs to start talking about value systems and how they are not just compatible with you, but how you're going to excel within those value systems.
Matt McGee:So it's a conversation that we have to have early and it's a notion that we constantly have to disabuse people of which is you need to, you need to make sure that you're not just college is not the end goal.
Matt McGee:College is a step along the way.
Matt McGee:And you need to make sure that you're going not to Harvard just because you want to go to Harvard, but you're going to succeed at Harvard.
Matt McGee:And if we need to kind of shift that and say, well, maybe Penn's a better fit, or maybe Princeton's a better fit, or maybe Bucknell or ucla, then we have to really have that conversation.
Matt McGee:Some people are a little more willing to hear that than others.
Keith:Right.
Keith:So I remember, let's, let's jump to.
Keith:You've gotten into your dream school.
Keith:You're starting to now adapt to being away from home maybe for the first time.
Keith:Are you discovering that students today are dealing more with mental health and confidence issues in that first year, particularly of school?
Keith:And if so, how do you help students, students to prepare themselves mentally and confidence wise for that leap from high school to college?
Matt McGee:That is.
Matt McGee:Yeah, that's, that's again, how much time do you have?
Matt McGee:It is, you know, I think, I think mental health issues go well beyond what students are dealing with in higher education right now because I see it on both sides.
Matt McGee:I see students who, they're struggling with mental health because of the pressure that is required to get into some of these top schools.
Matt McGee:I've seen mental health issues on the other side as well, where they're dealing with, you know, being away for the first time or they're dealing with an entire new paradigm of living, essentially.
Matt McGee:So it really ties back into what I was talking about earlier, where our job is to help you discover the things that you are most interested in.
Matt McGee:There is no way to Avoid the growing pains of moving out of home for the first time, living in a dorm for the first time, having to deal with a roommate who may or may not be of your proclivities, you know, who may be disgusting or maybe who, you know, they're kind of a jerk.
Matt McGee:There's no way to.
Matt McGee:There's no way to solve for those things.
Matt McGee:We all have to deal with those obstacles.
Matt McGee:So our job is to.
Matt McGee:Is to get you to one, make sure that you see college as.
Matt McGee:This is the opportunity for me to really pursue the thing that I love.
Matt McGee:Right?
Matt McGee:If I'm here just because I feel like this is the next step and I'm majoring in math because I want to be an investment banker to make a ton of money, but I don't really care about these things, then that messy, mean roommate becomes a much bigger hassle.
Matt McGee:But if I'm here studying what I care about, I'm studying politics and government because one day I'm going to run for office and I'm going to help solve the housing crisis.
Matt McGee:The roommate becomes a much smaller issue.
Matt McGee:And that's where we really want to push them to kind of understand that.
Matt McGee:But the other piece that we have to kind of help them with is understanding emotional resiliency.
Matt McGee:When they're applying to college, they think, and I think a lot of people think this, that if I just do enough work, if I just do enough things, if I just pay enough money, I can get into the school that I want to get into.
Matt McGee:I can get into Harvard.
Matt McGee:And the reality of that is not the case.
Matt McGee:If I.
Matt McGee:If you're a good enough student and we say, great, your Ivy level quality, if we apply to five Ivy League schools, you will likely get into one of them.
Matt McGee:Will you be able to pinpoint which one that is?
Matt McGee:Will you say, hey, I want Cornell, so we're going to Cornell.
Matt McGee:It's just not.
Matt McGee:It's just not that game, right?
Matt McGee:I have had students who have gotten into UC Berkeley while being rejected from UC Davis.
Matt McGee:The process is very opaque.
Matt McGee:So when we are working with students, there's a big understanding of you're going to have to learn to deal with setbacks, you're going to have to learn to deal with adversity.
Matt McGee:And this is a big part of that.
Matt McGee:If they don't have that going into the college process, that's where I find that they're not able to adjust as well once they're at college.
Keith:It reminds me of that wonderful scene in the Spider man movie when they're trying to all get into Harvard, and only one of the three of them does.
Matt McGee:And that is very much a reality that kids are facing.
Keith:Right.
Keith:And they're devastated, and their whole world comes crashing down, and he goes and messes up the entire metaphor.
Keith:And that's a big piece, right?
Matt McGee:Yep.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And it's the entire.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And that's the entire thing.
Matt McGee:And that's what we have to do from the outset.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:We are.
Matt McGee:We are trying to save the entire metaverse here by letting students know, you might not get this one.
Matt McGee:You will get in somewhere that is right for you, but you might not get the one true.
Matt McGee:You know, the one true love for you.
Matt McGee:So don't ruin the whole world.
Keith:Yeah, I love that.
Keith:That's good.
Keith:So I'm sure you've worked with a ton of students, can maybe give us one of your success stories that really kind of stands out in your mind.
Matt McGee:Yeah, for sure.
Matt McGee:So I think one of the ones that I'm.
Matt McGee:I'm probably most proud of was we had a student on the spectrum, and he was.
Matt McGee:He was real big into fish.
Matt McGee:Loved.
Matt McGee:Loved fish, loved the outdoors.
Matt McGee:And he was a decent student, you know, real nice kid, fun to talk to, could be a little bit.
Matt McGee:You know, could take a conversation to a little bit of a place where socially, I think, you know, somebody who wasn't familiar with working with someone on the spectrum would go like, ah, this is a little strange.
Matt McGee:But anyway, so he had decent prospects, but he loved the outdoors.
Matt McGee:And so what we did with his application was we focused it all on agriculture and land management, and we said, just lean into this.
Matt McGee:And there was some reluctance there from the family because they were like, I don't know.
Matt McGee:It's very.
Matt McGee:It was a little.
Matt McGee:It was a little alienating for a lot of people because, you know, he would talk about these fish in a way that he would go, you know, how is anybody really supposed to identify with this?
Matt McGee:It's very, very esoteric.
Matt McGee:And so one day, you know, he's out and he's, like, cleaning up the river, the brook that runs in his backyard.
Matt McGee:And he's always out there making sure that everything is kind of good because he knows that pollution can know, mess with the ecosystem.
Matt McGee:He cares a lot about that.
Matt McGee:And one day he's.
Matt McGee:He's there and he realizes that there's this certain kind of fish is in the river.
Matt McGee:And I can't go into the details of this because it is above my head, but essentially, because these fish had not gone to the ocean.
Matt McGee:They were.
Matt McGee:They were Taxonomically a different kind of fish.
Matt McGee:So essentially what he was able to discern was that because this fish was where it was, it was a different species of fish that had never existed before.
Matt McGee:So I said, okay, great, like let's run with this, let's run with this.
Matt McGee:And we got in touch with the local wildlife group and we got in touch with a couple of biologists.
Matt McGee:And he winds up doing an AP independent study with them as they're doing research trying to confirm that this actually is a different species of fish, what this means ecologically for the Bay Area.
Matt McGee:And he winds up pursuing this actually as a research project in the greater Northern California area.
Matt McGee:And we wrote all about this for his essays.
Matt McGee:We talked about why he really cared about this and ultimately where he was looking at probably a mid level school, he got into Berkeley and so now he's pursuing like a natural resources and land management degree at Berkeley.
Matt McGee:And to me it's like one of the pre examples of it doesn't matter what you're interested in, be interested in something because it shows the schools that you care, it shows the schools that you have direction, that you have work ethic, that you have curiosity.
Matt McGee:And those are the kind of people who will be movers and shakers and those are the kind of people that schools want.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:That's really good.
Keith:So what kind of feedback are you getting from students who you work with?
Matt McGee:You know, it's fantastic, right?
Matt McGee:So, you know, with a lot of the like intensive mentorship stuff we do from both the students and the parents are a little bit like, oh, I wasn't expecting, I wasn't expecting the mentor to be like part of the family.
Matt McGee:But like she's always there, she's there whenever we need her.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And so because they kind of work with them, the ideal scenario is that they're working with them over four or five years, kind of coming up through eighth grade that yeah.
Matt McGee:That they will be able to grow close enough.
Matt McGee:Because the thing about college is, you know, it's a personal decision.
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:It's not, it's not just, hey, this is the best school or this is, you know, the area of the country we want to go to.
Matt McGee:There's real personal implications with, you know, how comfortable do you be?
Matt McGee:How comfortable are you being far away from your family?
Matt McGee:Is there a legacy of schools that they to go to?
Matt McGee:How does mom feel about the major?
Matt McGee:How does dad feel about the major?
Matt McGee:What are the implications for the other kids in the family?
Matt McGee:How much is this going to cost?
Matt McGee:And so when it comes to advising and being able to support you and let you know, this is what you should write about, or this is the school that you should apply to, or this is what you should go for.
Matt McGee:It winds up being a decision that is bigger than just the student.
Matt McGee:And so for us to really kind of be able to make that mentor like a part of the family, someone who they trust, someone who they care about, somebody who they know will advocate for them, I think it takes the process of college counseling to a whole other level.
Keith:That's amazing.
Keith:So as a member of the national association of College Admission Counseling, how do you stay updated on the latest trends?
Keith:Because things are always changing in education and best practices with college admissions.
Matt McGee:You know, through NACDAC and another professional association that I am a part of, heka, the Higher Educations Consultants association, there is a lot of support within the community.
Matt McGee:Always people kind of posting in the forum going, hey, I have this really specific situation.
Matt McGee:You know, I have this left handed red headed student from Guam who's applying to this school.
Matt McGee:And I once heard that there's a scholarship for families who.
Matt McGee:The dad is blonde.
Matt McGee:Anybody have any insight?
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:And so there is always, there is always people who are supporting each other through the Higher Education Consultants Association.
Matt McGee:I have my own personal mentor they set me up with so that I have access to somebody to ask questions.
Matt McGee:And that mentor we like, you know, it's a symbiotic relationship so we give back to each other.
Matt McGee:We are constantly given access to webinars with college admissions officers so we can get like details and information straight from the horse's mouth about should, you know, should you submit test scores if they're below the range or, you know, this is how we view the test optional policy at our school or these are the majors that are impacted.
Matt McGee:These are the majors where we really want to bring students in.
Matt McGee:But so it's constantly just keeping your finger on the pulse across all the facets of the industry.
Matt McGee:Because you are right, it, it changes from year to year and arguably from day to day.
Keith:Yeah.
Keith:So as you look in the future, where do you see college admissions going, say five, ten years down the road?
Matt McGee:That's a tough one, Keith.
Keith:That's what we hear from.
Keith:We're here to ask you tough questions.
Matt McGee:The tough questions.
Matt McGee:No softballs.
Matt McGee:No softballs.
Matt McGee:On the Bridge Building podcast, I mean, I can definitely tell you this for sure.
Matt McGee:The test optional policies, some will remain, by and large though, those will go away.
Matt McGee:If you're a parent or a student that's wondering if in five years I'm going to be able to go test optional, I would say that that is highly unlikely.
Matt McGee:Those are going away.
Matt McGee:What happens next, though, is I think I would be doing a disservice by trying to make a prediction, given the uncertainty that happened this year with all of the free speech stuff on campus going.
Matt McGee:Insofar as you know, with Trump's victory last night and what that means for the Department of Education, I would say that's probably the end of any attempt at student, student loan forgiveness.
Matt McGee:But there are unfortunately right now more questions than answers.
Matt McGee:And I think with the recent news, there's even more questions surrounding that.
Matt McGee:So really, all I can say is that people like me and people in my profession are genuinely good people who are really just trying to answer these questions.
Matt McGee:Admissions people are not your enemy.
Matt McGee:They're not gatekeepers.
Matt McGee:They are really, again, just trying to provide the information and trying to make dreams come true.
Matt McGee:But as far as where it goes, in five to ten years, I'll tell you what, talk to me in five.
Keith:To ten years, we'll do that.
Keith:We'll come bring you back out in five years to figure out where things are.
Keith:You know, one thing I have noticed from going back to school after being gone for a little bit is the culture of college campuses has changed and the finances of college campus has changed.
Keith:I know for people who don't know this that really colleges seem to make their money in really the advanced degree program, not undergrad degree programs.
Keith:So if you had kind of advice for students who are looking for getting into that, their perfect college, what advice do you have for students thinking about that today?
Matt McGee:Well, I mean, do you mean financially or do you mean just generally?
Keith:Well, you know, I think financial is a big part that sometimes keeps parents from exploring it.
Keith:So I'll ask you that question later.
Keith:But just in terms of preparing themselves for the whole process, what do they need to be considering when they're thinking about a college?
Matt McGee:Yeah, for sure.
Matt McGee:I mean, so you got to consider all the typical factors.
Matt McGee:Do you want big classes or small classes?
Matt McGee:Do you want to be in the city or do you want to be in the country?
Matt McGee:Do you want to be close to home?
Matt McGee:Do you want to be far away?
Matt McGee:You got to consider all those things.
Matt McGee:I think you need to look into what makes a school strong in a particular area.
Matt McGee:You need to understand what kind of education you want to receive.
Matt McGee:You know, do you want a highly personalized, philosophically focused education?
Matt McGee:Right.
Matt McGee:Then we're going to start looking at liberal arts schools.
Matt McGee:Do you want a more traditional research based school?
Matt McGee:Then great.
Matt McGee:We're going to look at a larger research institution and you need to start looking at what schools are strong in, the areas that they're strong in.
Matt McGee:So, you know, if you are looking for something that's more arts based, then we need to start looking at the liberal arts colleges.
Matt McGee:If you want something that's more STEM based, then we're going to look at technology institutes and whatnot.
Matt McGee:I think to answer your question about finances and like, you know what you said about a lot of parents don't even look right or they assume they can't pay, I think that's.
Matt McGee:I get it.
Matt McGee:You know, I was on a call with, I was on a call with a university admissions officer last month actually, and that school's tuition is now above $100,000 a year, or not tuition, but the entire, entire room and board plus tuition was over 100 grand a year.
Matt McGee:And the question was posed by one of my colleagues, so what makes your university different?
Matt McGee:That I should tell my clients to go pay 100 grand a year at your university versus the community college down the road or the state university down the road?
Matt McGee:Like, what is your pitch to us so that we can pitch it to them?
Matt McGee:And the person who was on the call essentially said, I am going to decline to answer that question because I don't have to answer that question.
Matt McGee:Essentially saying we are the university that we are and our, you know, our reputation is what people are paying that for.
Matt McGee:And so that's the attitude that some of these schools are coming at this with.
Matt McGee:Right?
Matt McGee:It is, you know, for lack of a better way, it is a little bit of a middle finger.
Matt McGee:And I think for parents, what you have to understand is there are lots of ways that you don't necessarily know about to pay for college.
Matt McGee:And there are a lot of people within my industry, I am not one of them because I don't specialize in the scholarship aspect, I don't specialize in the financial aspect.
Matt McGee:But there are a lot of people out there who know about every single scholarship.
Matt McGee:They know about every single grant.
Matt McGee:They know how to tweak the FAFSA so that this income doesn't get counted towards the number that they're going to basically judge you on.
Matt McGee:And so what I think I tell a lot of, what I would tell a lot of parents is don't count any school out.
Matt McGee:You don't have to go there if you get in.
Matt McGee:Right?
Matt McGee:Don't count any school out.
Matt McGee:Apply to where you want to go.
Matt McGee:Make sure you're applying to a couple schools that you know are more affordable, but apply to the ones that feel out of reach.
Matt McGee:And then explore your options for financial aid there.
Matt McGee:Explore your options for scholarships.
Matt McGee:Certain schools like Harvard, you need to make.
Matt McGee:I don't, you know, don't quote me on the actual number here, but you need to have, you know, above a $250,000 a year income to wind up paying anything.
Matt McGee:A lot of students attend Harvard for free.
Matt McGee:So just understand there are lots of situations like that where you will get a lot of financial aid.
Matt McGee:Do not be turned off or scared away simply by the price tag upfront.
Keith:Well, if I had known that I got into Harvard for my undergrad degree.
Keith:So I'm curious, man, this is my second favorite question.
Keith:What do you want your legacy to be?
Matt McGee:I want my legacy to be that we.
Matt McGee:That we changed the face of education.
Matt McGee:You know, that education is this highly politicized.
Matt McGee:It's a thing that we see as, you know, teachers unions are pandered and, you know, there's all the things made about tenure and teachers having it too easy and then also teachers not making enough and the burnout and the work that is required.
Matt McGee:I would like MRM's legacy to be that we changed the face of education, that we started to.
Matt McGee:That we made it known that education is an investment, an investment that should be made by all parties, the government, students and their families, that the industry in general was one worth investing in and creating because ultimately that education that we give our students, that is the future of the country.
Matt McGee:And by not investing in that, not investing in our teachers and not investing in our schools and, and limiting access to not just services like my own, but other higher education, you know, limiting access to college only serves to hamstring all of us.
Matt McGee:And I think ultimately I want MRM to have been a warrior in making education accessible to people.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:So what key takeaways do you want the audience to leave from our conversation?
Matt McGee:Easily?
Matt McGee:Absolutely.
Matt McGee:Number one, don't try and get into college.
Matt McGee:Try and get interested in something.
Matt McGee:Try and get passionate about something.
Matt McGee:There's an adage sometimes I like to use with the kids is don't get interesting, get interested.
Matt McGee:That is far and away going to be the most powerful thing that you can do to improve your chances of getting into college.
Matt McGee:And more importantly, succeeding and being a happy, healthy individual once you are there.
Keith:I love that.
Keith:Anything.
Keith:I haven't asked you that, I should have asked you.
Matt McGee:I don't think so.
Matt McGee:You had some heavy hitters Keith.
Keith:Well, thank you.
Keith:So where can people find MRN and find out more about that.
Keith:If they have a child ready for college or I should say a child that's in 8th grade getting ready to think about college, where should they find you?
Keith:They want to connect with you.
Matt McGee:Yeah, for sure.
Matt McGee:You can find us online at www.mrmeducation.com.
Matt McGee:you can follow me personally on Instagram @Matt McGee underscore college admissions or you can follow us on Instagram @Mrm Education.
Keith:Well, Matt, thanks so much for taking the time to be on and give us some information about college and how we can do that and make that affordable.
Keith:I love that idea of being academically interest interested, not interesting.
Keith:So I like that idea of, you know, finding what you, you're passionate about and living that out and letting that guide where you spend the rest of your career doing.
Matt McGee:Do what you love.
Matt McGee:You'll never work a day in your life, right?
Keith:That's right.
Keith:And they'll pay you for it.
Keith:They will.
Keith:Thanks so much, Matt.
Matt McGee:Thanks for having me.
Matt McGee:KE.
