Living Deeper: The Enneagram as a Map of Love
Dr. Roxanne Howe-Murphy, an esteemed international bestselling author and a pioneering thought leader, joins us to delve into the intricate interconnections that often remain obscured to many. Throughout our discourse, we explore her profound understanding of human potential, which she has cultivated since her formative years on a small Midwest farm. Roxanne's work prominently integrates the Enneagram with coaching, revealing how this framework can illuminate the pathways to self-discovery and transformation. We engage in a thoughtful examination of the insights she has garnered from her mentors, which serve as guiding principles in her life and work. This episode promises to offer valuable perspectives for those seeking to navigate the complexities of their identities and inner landscapes.
Dr. Roxanne Howe-Murphy, a distinguished international bestselling author and pioneering thought leader in the realm of personal development, shares profound insights during her engaging dialogue on the podcast. Drawing from her extensive experiences and teachings, she elucidates the transformative power of the Enneagram—a nuanced personality framework that facilitates deeper self-understanding and interpersonal dynamics. Dr. Murphy recounts her journey, beginning with her upbringing on a Midwest farm, where she cultivated a keen awareness of human potential and interconnections often overlooked by society. Throughout the episode, she emphasizes the importance of recognizing one’s intrinsic value and the potential for growth that resides within each individual. Her teachings, grounded in both personal experience and academic rigor, invite listeners to explore their own personality types while fostering a compassionate approach to self-discovery and personal growth.
In conclusion, Dr. Murphy’s contributions to the field of coaching and personal development are both enlightening and transformative. Her ability to weave personal anecdotes with practical wisdom makes this podcast episode not only informative but also profoundly impactful. As she invites listeners to delve into the depths of their personalities and embrace the journey of self-exploration, it becomes evident that her work is a testament to the power of love, compassion, and understanding in facilitating genuine transformation.
In essence, this podcast episode offers a rich and nuanced perspective on the intersection of personality, coaching, and the transformative journey of life.
Takeaways:
- Dr. Roxanne Howe Murphy emphasizes the importance of recognizing the potential within individuals, which can lead to transformative change.
- One of the most profound pieces of advice she received was to 'follow the energy' in one's personal and professional journey.
- Paying attention to the details in life enhances our presence and deepens our experiences, as discussed by Dr. Murphy.
- Dr. Murphy's approach to the Enneagram is about discovering one's true nature beyond personality, facilitating a journey towards self-awareness and growth.
- The notion that 'this too shall pass' serves as a reminder of the transient nature of both challenges and successes in life.
- Incorporating the Enneagram into coaching practices allows for a deeper exploration of clients' motivations and patterns, fostering personal development.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Deep Living Lab
- Enneagram
- Myers Briggs
Transcript
My guest today is Dr. Roxanne Howe Murphy. She's an international bestselling author, pioneer, thought leader, and teacher. She grew up in a small farm in the Midwest.
A thread that Roxanne has carried through life is her capacity to recognize potential that lies within us all and explore interconnections that are not often visible to others at the time. She has taught at universities on both coasts and and authored four books and with a fifth in the works.
As a pioneer in integrating the worlds of Enneagrams and coaching, she founded a coaching school and is a co founder of the Deep Living Lab, a social impact nonprofit. She teaches internationally. We welcome her to the podcast. Well, Roxanne, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:I'm doing great. I'm so happy to be with you, Keith, and thank you for having me.
Keith Haney:It's an honor to have you. I'm looking forward to this conversation.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:I am, too. I think it will be rich and fun and I hope, really helpful for your listeners and viewers.
Keith Haney:All my guests provide great content, so I'm looking forward to you adding to the long list of amazing guests who have been on. So no pressure. So I love to ask my guests this question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Well, four pieces, actually. I have, if I could.
Keith Haney:Sure.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:And actually, as I was. I'm thinking about these. They really have been guides in my life. One was from my husband. This is about 20, 25, 26 years ago, 27 years ago.
And I was, I had stepped down from teaching at the university and I didn't know what I was going to do, and I was kind of finding my way. And he said, follow the energy. And what that referred to, Keith, is that I, I had taught for a long time. I know how to work with people.
So I went into team development, supporting teams and being healthier, et cetera, et cetera. And I enjoyed it, but it wasn't the energy for me. And he said, well, what's coming to you?
And I said, well, people are contacting me, asking if I would work with them individually, which led me into becoming a coach 25 years ago now. So follow, follow the energy. And I often use that in our organization. I pay attention to what's, what's happening, what are people responding to.
That resonates, you know, with me or with us. One of my beloved teachers and mentors, Don Richard Risso, who I might talk about a bit later, he this was a pioneer in the Enneagram world.
He's passed, but he private conversation we had, he said, you know, pay attention to the details. And it took me actually quite a while to really get that.
And what I came to understand that to mean is that when you pay attention to the details, you are more present to what's happening, you're more present to your life, you're more present to what's around you. You know, even something as simple that we do every day, hopefully, you know, we're washing our, washing our hands.
Like, what, what, what does that feel like? You know, what's the experience of that?
So maybe sudsing up and, and, and kind of clasping your hands and then drawing, you know, we do it so automatically it's like, no, that's a detail in our life. And paying attention to the details actually helps us become more present and deepens our experience of life.
And then my dear dad, he was a depression era guy. Um, and so he, he knew a lot about difficulties and when something difficult would happen in our family, it would be hard for us.
He said, this too will pass. Or when I had something in my life going on, and he said, you know, this too will pass. And, you know, it always does.
And what I really have taken that to mean over time is that this tubal pass, it relates to the dynamism of life. You know, things do change and not to hold on to anything too, too hard, don't hold on too much because it too will pass. So it's.
And even, you know, the good things don't hold on to the, what you think, you know, are the bad things. The bad things trying to get rid of them or hold on to the good things. Because this is an experience and we're moving through life.
And obviously life is the midst of a lot of change all the time, and we're really experiencing it now. So not grasping, not getting too attached, I think was a big part of that message for me.
And then another one is a woman that was a friend of mine, is also a mentor at times. Her name is Joya. Isn't that a great name? I love it. And she said this was in the 90s. She said, Roxanne, prepare, prepare yourself.
We have to be prepared. And she was actually talking about, you know, kind of change is coming. There's, there's. We're, we're in the midst of a time of a lot of dynamism.
And that was in the 90s. And what that really came to me, mean to me, Keith, was to be prepared means to do my inner work, you know, to do my inner work.
So that I can be as present and help other people in their. In their inner work to move through whatever might be coming. And so, you know, those four messages, they're. They're pretty woven in to my life.
It's amazing because I doubt that. Well, maybe Don, because of. He was that kind of a teacher, but I'm not sure that any of those messages were.
When they were said to me was like, the intention was, oh, you're going to carry this throughout your life. Right? So we never know. We never know. But the impact of what we say to others, what we convey, might. Might be.
Might just be a seed for something that lives on through their lives.
Keith Haney:I love that. And one of those that you mentioned was one I used when I was in school, this too shall pass.
Because there were some difficult moments and, you know, difficult finals, difficult classes, and we. That we thought. That we thought we invented that phrase. So now you have it too. We obviously didn't invent that, so.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, what happens is when. Where in the midst of it, it's like it. Particularly difficult situations, they. They blow up, right?
You know, they. They kind of bloom out and they take over everything, and it feels like, oh, my gosh, this is just the way it's going to be. And.
And so we kind of get it in a way attached, even fighting it, rather than saying, oh, this is a point in time. It might be a long point, lots of points, but it will pass.
Keith Haney:I love that. I'm curious, looking at your.
Your very nice resume here and life experiences, who are some people in your life who, along your journey, served as a mentor for you?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:I've had, I feel like many, many, many mentors that have really had an impact. You know, one was in high school, and he was the high school counselor. His name was Glenn Fear. What a name. And I did not fear him.
And he recognized something in me that I didn't know that anybody else recognized. And he really supported me during my high school years when there were challenging times.
And he also recognized that I had potential, that there was potential within that just needed to be explored. And so he. He put things into place to help support that. After I graduated, Sherry Huber was a mentor for me. She's actually a Zen teacher.
But what I really recall from her is that she.
She helped me at least start the process that I think is lifelong is to be more honest with myself about how I show up or who I think, who I thought I was. I. I think of it as like she was trying to Help me get over myself. And I'm still working on that, Keith. You know, it's a long process.
Keith Haney:Defin.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:I mentioned Joya already, but I just want to mention Don again. Don, Richard Risso and his. His teaching partner, Russ Hudson, who's still very much alive and very much involved in leader in the Enneagram world.
But Don really supported me in understanding the power of the Enneagram and. And in my own life. And then how that he.
He supported me when I was writing my first book in the Enneagram world, which was the integration of Enneagram and coaching, deep coaching. So he was. He was there be. You know, I kind of felt him behind me, but we had a number of conversations, and he really mentored me through that.
And it was such an honor for me to have that relationship with him. And I, you know, a way I. I really kind of call upon him, you know, just. He was so wise and so. So generous with me and. And with so many people. He had.
He impacted thousands of people, actually. So I was very blessed to have him on lots of one. On one occasions.
Keith Haney:So you've mentioned Enneagram. I know what it is for those who don't know, kind of explain kind of the concept of Enneagram personality assessment.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Yeah. Well, you know, I'm.
I'm kind of glad you stage your question that way, because the Enneagram, as I have come to understand it and work with it, you know, it's. It's really a body of wisdom that leads to transformation.
So the way most people know the Enneagram is that, oh, it helps you identify what type you are.
Keith Haney:Right.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:And so it's often understood as a typing assessment. And.
And there are nine different points around this circle, a circle of oneness that reflects that we're all connected in a very deep and profound way. But there are individual expressions of this oneness. Okay. And those nine types, or I like to think of them as kind of spheres of the human condition.
They show us where we get in our way, but who. It shows us who we think we are in terms of the personality. And most. Most of us just naturally think that we are a personality that we identify with.
Oh, yeah. I.
Once I can kind of find out, excuse me, Where I land on this map, this visual map of the Enneagram on this circle with these nine points, then I can start looking at, oh, these are. These are some of the behaviors I show up with, or these are some of the attitudes I have, or these are some of the emotion.
Emotional patterns that I have. So it shows us the patterns that come with a personality. And there's nine different sets of patterns.
Below that or with that is what's beyond the personality and that there are more expansive experiences that are related to that point on the Enneagram. So for example, let's just take one point in, in the Rizo Hudson work. Let me just. So point one, okay.
And point one refers to an experience of really, you know, having a mission, wanting to do good in the world, seeing yourself as out there paying attention to what needs to happen. And we can also get very critical about ourselves not doing enough, not doing the best job, or thinking that we need to be doing better all the time.
And so the inner critic gets really involved with that. When the personality patterns can relax a little more, if that makes sense.
When we don't, we're not so attached to them, we're not holding on to them so much that we, the personality patterns can begin to start taking a back seat and our truer nature begins to come through. And our truer nature at that point one is more serenity, the wisdom.
I still can really have high intentions of helping to make something in the world better. And I can also accept what is more easily. I mean this is kind of a 12 step practice is through, you know, the type one.
So there's a way in which we can work with the Enneagram to identify where we land and also to do some inner work around it. And that inner work we're pointing to, I have something in, in my work, I use an iceberg model.
And the iceberg model shows what, what is more visible in our behaviors and what we're doing in the world. But below the water are those inner dynamics that are driving our patterns. And that's where we actually can do the work, is underneath the waterline.
And as we pay attention to, you know, what might be driving us, we can begin to work with it. You know, there's a, there's a healing process. Let me, let me give you another example.
Point three, which is called the achiever Boy, you know, I'm going to be the, I'm going to be the best at this and I'm going to be successful in what I do. And, and, and people who are dominant in that type often are very successful in the world. Right.
And they're also often exhausted because they're on constantly oriented toward their goals. I have a goal going to meet that goal, then this is the next goal. I'm going to meet that goal.
But underneath that is like Oh, I haven't connected with my heart and so starting to connect more with my heart. And at the point three people that identify with that point tend to be incredible teachers of the heart and really help or.
Or just connect with that in their life to help other people connect with their parts. But you don't see that on the surface.
So we're looking at what's on the surface and then the qualities that are available when what's on the surface and the personality activity relaxes and goes to the back seat. Because we'll always have a personality. We're not trying to get rid of the personality. It's just seeing more of who we are.
Keith Haney:So I know I've done a ton of personality things. And like Myers Briggs, for example, you have a different personality type when you're under stress and a different environment.
So how is the Enneagram? You kind of explained how is that different?
Some other assessments to try to kind of get at who are you in certain situations or certain circumstances or under stress or just kind of maybe kind of unpack a little bit of how that is unique. The Enneagram.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Yeah, I've done a lot of work with a lot of different assessments as well. And what. The Enneagram actually asks different questions. So we enter into it from a place of.
Of identifying or recognizing some patterns, and we go, oh, yeah, that's. Yeah, I do that. Oh, yeah, I do that. But the. The work related to it is really to take us underneath those patterns, and that's different.
And I work with Myers Briggs, I work with disc, you know, and others. But this is to explore so, you know, our.
Our inner motivations to begin to see, experience those places in our life where, oh, we're not so taken by the personality and we recognize, you know, we might have moments of awe, you know, and I think, you know, that's just one of those experiences, like, oh, there's a lot more here than just me trying to be in control of life. And so the personality types at the personality level show us how we try to manipulate life to be in control.
And you and I know, you know, that only goes so far. There's certain things that we can control in our lives, and there's an awful lot, you know, that we can't.
And so there's a greater focus from the transformational perspective of how can I work with this to get over myself, not get in my way so much? You know, that's what I hear from a lot of people, students and clients. You know, I feel like I Get my own way. And I don't understand why that is.
And then we see how that personality actually, actually works. And I can.
I can take people through a process about how it actually works and how it keeps repeating itself, trying to always get to a point of satisfaction that never satisfies for long. So, for example, I'll just go back to the. The point three, the achiever. If I'm trying to always be successful and trying to reach a goal.
Oh, that goal, achieving that might feel great, maybe for five minutes, for a day, maybe longer, you know, but guess what? It's never enough. So then starts it all over again. It starts it all up. So the patterns really do run in cycles.
And so I find there's so much more depth. I mean, for me, the Enneagram is really.
Can be a lifelong area of study because it helps us connect to both how we can be more present, be here in our bodies. So a lot of somatic work with our hearts, with our emotions, with.
With the deeper connected heart that's connected to the divine and to our mental activity, what's going on in our mind.
So it teaches us how we can work with those three centers, what we call the belly, heart and mind centers, to see where they're actually not working to support our. Our life and where. What we can do to bring more attention to each of the centers. So the mind, when the mind can.
When we can connect with the spaces between all those thoughts. Mindfulness is another way of thinking about it, how to be really mindful.
So it has so much that I think, you know, for people who are really analytical, they're attracted because, oh, I can start to understand what this is about. But what about my heart? You know, what about being here in my body? Do I have a body?
You know, a lot of us know we have a body because we take showers, right? We have to put on clothes. But we might not realize that we have internal resources in this body.
And that's one of the beautiful gifts of the Enneagram. It's to really help us know that we're not our personality, Keith. It helps us to know that there's so much more.
And if we get caught in our personality, we're guaranteed to have lots of unnecessary problems. I mean, there's enough issues in the world, but the personality can really get us in trouble.
Keith Haney:Most definitely. So let's talk about your new book and what inspired you to write Underneath your Personality.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Well, what inspired me was that the book that it is based upon, which is Deep Living with the Enneagram recovering your true nature is. Is a bigger volume. It's. It's a volume to come back to over and over and over.
There's a lot of material in it that really helps people orient to how do I go through this transformational process. So it's like there is for people who may not be quite ready to jump in to that, this book.
Let's see if I can do underneath your person, oh, I don't know your personality, and discover greater well being through Deep Living with the Enneagram is kind of an entryway to the bigger book. So it kind of gives you. Gives a sense of what's involved at a certain level. And then Deep living with the Enneagram is.
Really takes you into that depth. And another reason I wrote it is be very transparent. I have a. I had.
He's now passed a foreign rights agent and he said, oh, I think in the foreign literature world that a shorter book might be a great entryway. So he really encouraged me to, to write that.
So this kind of distills and gives in a way a bit of a synthesis of what's involved to really orient ourselves to deep living. Because it's not just about knowing and landing on where we are on the Enneagram map, but it's how do we approach it, how do we work with.
With this and you know, for sure what comes up all the time, you maybe have never experienced it, but I think probably most people, the inner, the inner critic.
Keith Haney:Oh no, he lives, he lives in me too.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:So. Yeah, yeah, no, everyone, everyone has some experience of the inner critic. And so how do you work with that?
And in fact, in the Deep Living book, I have a whole huge chapter on how to work with it in a way that, you know, we're not trying to make it go away, but how we change our relationship to it. So yeah, so the underneath your personality, you know, has some examples and also includes what's called a triangle of identity.
And this is something that actually is below the waterline. So the triangle of identity has. In the middle of this.
Well, if we start on one corner, let's say we start over here and we say that's what I want in life. So I identify with the 0.9, which is at the top of the Enneagram symbol 0.9.
And what people dominant in type 9 want is comfort, you know, and not to make waves. They want to be connected and they. What they want to avoid is conflict. So do whatever they can to create to avoid conflict.
And then at the Top up here is, well, how do I cope within life? If I'm trying to get to comfort and harmony in life, I want to live in harmony with others.
And if I want to avoid conflict, how do I cope with all the things that come up in life? Right. And, oh, I shut down, you know, is one way of doing it. I numb out. That's one way. That's a coping strategy.
And then in the middle of that triangle is then who I think I am. Oh, I think I'm. I'm calm, I'm, you know, I'm low maintenance, I'm nice, you know, and that becomes a basis for how we think of ourselves.
And, and actually, part of the work is how do we deal with what we want to avoid?
Keith Haney:Right, right.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Because. Because by trying to avoid conflict, we create conflict. And it's so. It's so paradoxical.
So I think that that's a really helpful part for each of the descriptions of the nine of the nine points.
Keith Haney:So I'm curious, how do you incorporate this into your coaching practice?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Oh, well, actually, it was being a coach that led me to the. The Enneagram. And. And I had a coach and I was just talking to. I was like. I said, I'm. I'm not getting to the real stuff when I'm coaching.
nneagram. And so this is like:And I had learned about the Enneagram. I thought, or I've been introduced to it before. I didn't like it. I thought it was too. I didn't like it at all. So it.
Well, it was the way it was written. It was the way it was presented at that time. I thought it was quite negative and I wasn't ready. I'm sure I wasn't ready, you know, to get into it.
But as I picked up and then started studying with Don and Russ is like, oh, this is it. This is what I'm not getting to.
So I started incorporating that into my coaching, which was to, you know, to meet the client where they are without trying to fix them. And I think that a lot of times clients come in. I'm sure you see this, you know, like, people feel like they've got.
There's something terribly wrong with them and that needs to be fixed. And so I was able to help people connect with where they landed on the map, like what they most identified with. And then we would explore.
So you know, what's your belief? You know, what are your beliefs about yourself?
What's the fundamental belief, which is really hard to get to, a really fundamental belief that we have probably lived our whole life with. And then, you know, what's working, what's not working, how to. How to engage these centers of intelligence.
So it's, you know, it took me five years to write the Deep Coaching book, which integrated the Enneagram in coaching. And its second edition came out. I think that was in 20. That was in 22. Deep coaching, using the Enneagram as a catalyst for profound change. And it's.
The first version took me five years, and then the second version took me another three years because it's like 40 new material. And there's. There's just so much that we can.
So much support that we can give our clients by helping them to become more present to themselves, pay attention to this inner critic that gets in there and tells them terrible things that they begin to believe and how to, you know, and so how to gain some distance, how to change a relationship to the inner critic, how to identify to. To connect with. And, you know, we're talking about having a direct experience. So it's not just. I. I always say to my clients, don't believe me.
Check in with your direct experience. What is true for you? Well, what language might you use that I'm not using that reflects what your experience is? So it's very much connected with.
This is what I experience as being true.
And so often, Keith, what is a person has been holding inside for a long time about something that is true for them both, that could be really hard to admit and to recognize. That's part of the human experience. That's part of the human condition. That's been part of your journey, and you're in a new place now.
You're moving, you know, but. And oftentimes this truth is, oh, my gosh, it's so brilliant about what they recognize is possible for themselves.
And that's what I think I really help people do, is recognize what's possible, their potential that maybe hasn't been fully expressed yet. And that's a joy, too, when people come into contact with that and when they're able to say, you know what, Roxanne, my inner critic came up and I.
I took a breath and I said, that's not helping. Don't need you now. And what is more true for me right now? And so to.
To just interrupt the inner critic and how powerful that is, because when we're trying to grow. I mean, when we're in a growth path, the inner critic is going to come up and say, no, no, no, you got to stay the way you work.
Keith Haney:Right, exactly. So for those who are going to pick up your book underneath your personality, how would you recommend they utilize a book to get the most out of it?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Well, I recommend that as. As you read, you sit with it. It's not like a speed read. You know, our inner. And being introduced to our inner work or this form of the inner work.
Maybe a person's done quite a bit of inner work. I had done a lot of inner work. I thought, before I came to the Enneagram, this was a whole different approach. And. And see what resonates.
See what resonates, Take time. There's examples. Do I resonate with it now? That doesn't sound like me. Probably doesn't.
You might land on a different point on the Enneagram map and, you know, notice in your life, how do certain patterns show up that are. That are indicated, that are listed in the book for each type? How does that show up? If. Does that feel true for you?
Like, are these descriptors that make sense? And. And sometimes it takes a while. A lot of times, in fact, a lot of times for people, it takes a while to self identify.
And I think it's very useful to have a coach to take a person through an inquiry process to see what feels most true. I mistype myself initially. I mistyped myself as a two, which is the helper, because I do a lot of helping and I always have since I was a kid.
And so I was a helper and I was generous and I, Yeah, you know, I'm warm and I. I really care for people. And then. But it didn't make. Didn't make that much difference in my life. So what. You know, it's like, I wasn't.
It didn't have an energetic response. It's just like I recognize some of those things. And then I found type 9, which is the Peacemaker. And I went, oh, it's right here.
And I've never seen it. My pet, how I think of myself. My patterns, they're right here. And I just have never recognized them. And it shook me to the core, really. So it takes.
And then it's like, oh, wow, thank goodness I'm seeing something to her about myself. So take.
What I would say is, if you're looking at the nine types and you think you might be dominant in one of them, just stay curious about it and stay open because that may or may not be the type that is right for you. For the two, it's like I didn't have the same internal motivations that a person who is dominant as a helper had.
But boy, the motivations, you know, to state, state in kind of invisible. And a lot of the characteristic characteristics of nine, like those were my inner secret. I just thought that that's who I was.
You know, I, I'll give you another example.
I was asked to come in to work with a team by the executive director because she wasn't really happy with how the team was performing and she thought maybe working with the Enneagram would be helpful. So you know, I was introducing the different points and types and we get to type three.
I, I picking on three today and, and we were talking about being really goal oriented and always trying to achieve and be recognized for your accomplishments. And she goes, well, everybody does that. I and her team is going, that's not how everybody is. And so she, and this is what we do.
We take what is natural for us and we think, oh, that's who I am. And that's how then everybody should be. And so she had a should around the rest of her team that they should be like her. We do that with our kids.
They should be like me. But they might have a totally different orientation to life.
So you can still really be a big contributor and have a lot to offer and not to a team, for example, and not be dominant in this three. So it, it takes a lot of honesty and willingness to be curious. It takes compassion. So being compassionate.
If you're reading this or the bigger book, deep living with the Enneagram, be really compassionate and, and you know, there's a trust part of this too. To trust that there's something more maybe to, to learn about yourself, to experience. Some of it might be a little harder.
Some of it will be like, oh my gosh, are you kidding? That's, that's part of this, this experience of this type.
So I, I always suggest that people enter it with curiosity, compassion, try to be honest with yourself to the degree that you can and courageous because it's, you know, we've lived our, the way we live for so long and take it for granted. This is just who I am. That's what I hear from a lot of people. Well, it's just who I am. Well, let's take a look at that. Keith. Is that just who I am?
Maybe not. Maybe there's really something more. And you know, that's a pain point that this is just who I am and nothing I don't.
So what's to change or I can't change? And so we feel like we're. This is the way we have to be for the rest of our life.
So it's helping to be willing to have maybe meet the pain point and also recognize that that's not really the truth, that there's so much more to you.
Keith Haney:Wow, that's insightful. So I love to ask my guest this question.
As you think about the work you're already doing and the books that you have coming up, what do you want your legacy to.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:That's a big question. That's a big question. It is my. I've always called this work a force for love. I feel like this is really about loving.
In fact, I call the Enneagram a map of love because it brings us into a possibility and the probability, if we do the inner work around it, of coming into greater love of self. Not in a narcissistic way, but just really honoring. Here we are, we were, we're on this earth.
There's some reason, whatever that divine sacred reason is for us and, and so compassion.
So, you know, I, I hope that my legacy has something to do with bringing, helping people be more compassionate, more caring, more kind to themselves and to others and to recognize that, you know, love's here, love's here and if we open to it, oh my gosh, we don't have to go around trying to create love. We don't have to try to be love we don't have. We could receive what's here.
And so this is a real compassionate, I think, tender, gentle way of entering into our, our transformational work. And I, I, Keith, I feel so blessed to have come into this work for myself because it's totally changed it. It turned my life around.
I, I say that it saved my life. And I don't know if that's literal. I, I think it is. I don't think it's literal, but it feels like it.
It's certainly at a, I mean emotional, a spiritual level. It's saved my life to come into the greater, a deeper truth.
Keith Haney:That's amazing. So where can listeners find this amazing book underneath your personality and connect with you on social media?
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:Well, I'll tell you what, they could actually go to my website just to get a taste.
If they want to get a taste, they go to Deep Within Co, that's my author website and they will can get sign up and then get a download of about the first and this is only like 100, I don't know, 50 pages. This book. They get a download of the first part of the book, 25 pages or so. Of course it's online and they can request it through a bookstore.
They won't find it probably in a bookstore, but you know, certainly on Amazon also. And that's true for my other books as well. If they're interested in getting a little more insight, they can sign up at www.deeplivinglab.org.
that's a nonprofit that I helped to, I founded, co founded and that it offers work coaching and courses based mostly on my books.
And signing up there will get you information on what's offered but also you'll get a download on these iceberg models that I was talking about like what's above the waterline, what's underneath the waterline. So there's two resources just to get free information and that's a, that's a really great way to connect with me.
And just to go with Roxanne Howe Murphy on Facebook or on LinkedIn, those are the two sources of social media that I tend to, to use the most.
Keith Haney:Well, Roxanne, thanks so much for sharing your heart and your passion for the Enneagram and the work you do and you know, living that, the deeper living. I appreciate the work you do and blessings on that.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:I appreciate that. Keith, thank you so much and I thank you for the opportunity just to kind of low here it is.
There's a lot I can say and so thank you for allowing me that opportunity and I, I truly hope that your listeners and viewers will find benefit from this and maybe have some curiosity.
Keith Haney:Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Roxanne. Have a great day.
Roxanne Howe-Murphy:You have a great day too, Keith. Take care now. Bye bye.