The Impact Coaching Project: Transforming Athletic Development
Today, I am honored to welcome Dr. Rob Ramseyer, the esteemed Vice President of Athletics and Strategic Expansion at Friends University, as well as the co-founder of the Impact Coaching Project. This initiative is dedicated to nurturing coaches who emphasize the holistic development of student-athletes, advocating for a coaching philosophy that extends beyond mere performance metrics. Throughout our dialogue, we will explore Dr. Ramsmer's conviction that authentic coaching fosters not only athletic prowess but also personal growth and resilience in young athletes. His accomplishments include authoring a book on athletic leadership and hosting the podcast "Beyond Coaching," where he delves into similar themes of effective mentorship and community building in sports. Join us as we discuss the transformative potential of coaching and the critical importance of prioritizing relationships within athletic environments.
The conversation with Dr. Rob Ramseyer is a thought-provoking exploration of the current state of coaching and athlete development in collegiate sports. As the Vice President of Athletics and Strategic Expansion at Friends University, Dr. Ramseyer has pioneered the Impact Coaching Project, which seeks to revolutionize coaching by strongly emphasizing the holistic development of student-athletes. This initiative serves as a testament to his belief that effective coaching extends beyond the mere metrics of performance, advocating instead for a model that nurtures athletes' physical and emotional well-being.
During our discussion, Dr. Ramseyer sheds light on the changing landscape of youth athletics, highlighting the increasing pressures that young athletes face in today's society, mainly due to the advent of social media and heightened expectations from families. He articulates the necessity for coaches to build meaningful relationships with their athletes, as evidenced by research conducted at Friends University, which indicates that the primary motivator for student-athletes is their relationships with teammates and coaches. This finding prompts a reevaluation of coaching practices, urging a shift towards fostering environments where athletes feel valued and supported.
Furthermore, Dr. Ramseyer reflects on his personal experiences as a young coach and the mentors who shaped his journey, providing insight into the importance of guidance in the development of effective coaching philosophies. He emphasizes the need for structured training programs for coaches, advocating for a model that includes elements of emotional intelligence, conflict resolution, and community building. The dialogue culminates in discussing Dr. Ramsmer's forthcoming publications and ongoing research endeavors, which aim to explore the dynamics of team culture and athlete motivation. Ultimately, Dr. Ramsmer's vision for the future of coaching prioritizes character development and relational engagement, striving to cultivate a generation of athletes who are not only skilled in their sports but also well-rounded individuals equipped to navigate life's challenges.
Takeaways:
- The Impact Coaching Project aims to cultivate coaches who emphasize the holistic development of student-athletes, transcending mere performance metrics.
- Dr. Rob Ramseyer's insights reveal that relationships significantly motivate athletes, with teammates and family taking precedence over coaches.
- Coaches today must adapt to a changing landscape where information and social media influence young athletes' perceptions and expectations.
- A successful coaching culture prioritizes competence, care, and consistent character in building strong relationships with athletes.
- The evolution of youth sports has led to increased pressures on athletes and families, necessitating a more thoughtful approach to coaching and mentorship.
- Rob's reflections on mentorship emphasize the profound impact that guidance and accountability have on a coach's development.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Friends University
- Impact Coaching
- 3D Coaching
- Positive Coaching Alliance
Transcript
My guest today is Dr.
Speaker A:Rob Ramsmer, Vice President of Athletics and Strategic Expansion at Friends University, co founder of the Impact Coaching project to develop coaches who prioritize the holistic growth of student athletes.
Speaker A:The ICP is recognized as a thought leader in modern coaching, providing resources and training to foster well rounded athletic development.
Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Rob commitment to his initiative highlights his belief in coaching that transcends performance metrics.
Speaker A:He has published one book and will release another in the next month focusing on athletic leadership.
Speaker A:He also hosts the beyond the podcast Beyond Coaching where he explores related themes.
Speaker A: earning him recognition as a: Speaker A:Dr.
Speaker A:Rob lives in Wichita with his wife Charlie and their four children.
Speaker A:We welcome him to the podcast.
Speaker A:Well, Rob, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:How you doing today?
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Keith, how are you?
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:I'm excited to talk to you.
Speaker A:I love talking to people who love athletes because I love sports, even though I don't play as much as I used to anymore, but still love to watch it.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Well, I'm about the same.
Speaker A:I tell my kids I was really great in my day.
Speaker A:So I love to ask my guests this question.
Speaker A:What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
Speaker B:You know, so I, I became a head college baseball coach at a very young age and my high school football coach, who was also my is my best buddy's dad took me out to lunch and he said, hey, I've learned a lot over the years, made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker B:Best advice I can give you is it's never as good or as bad as it seems.
Speaker B:So that, that's something that's really resonated with me over the years to, to try to stay level and not, not, not overreact.
Speaker B:Not underreact.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:That's, that's such good advice because you can, you can take things and exaggerate them or inflate them to places where they don't need to go.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:It's allowed me just kind of gets me to slow down, you know, let's take a breath before we react.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I'm curious as you think about your life and things you've accomplished, who are some people along the way you served as a mentor or guide for you?
Speaker B:Gosh, that's hard to answer because there's been so many.
Speaker B:I had a.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:I got real involved in young life in high school and young life's kind of an outreach.
Speaker B:Outreach program.
Speaker B:International deal.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I was already a Christian, but Stephen Mueller was the director at the time and really took me under his wing and discipled me, worked with me, and was.
Speaker B:Was very helpful.
Speaker B:And then two other people that come to mind.
Speaker B:My freshman year of college, I got asked to join an accountability group, which was the first time I'd ever been part of something like that.
Speaker B:And he's passed away now, but the guy's name was Baker Duncan.
Speaker B:He was a very, very wealthy investment banker.
Speaker B:And he said he had two gifts in life.
Speaker B:One was to make money, and the other one was to mentor young men.
Speaker B:So he tried to do both really well, but his whole thing was, you got to do the best you can with what you got, but you have to understand what you got.
Speaker B:And he really made us look in the mirror and be honest with each other about our strengths and weaknesses and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And that's really impacted me over my life.
Speaker B:And I didn't really stay in touch with him after I left, but that year, it was just a year, was very, very formative.
Speaker B:And then the last one I talk about was my.
Speaker B:My first boss when I became a head college coach named Joel Kaufman.
Speaker B:And Joel thought so differently than me that it stretched me.
Speaker B:And he's a Hall of Fame basketball coach before he became ad, But.
Speaker B:But he would say the most important year of his career was the year he didn't win any games.
Speaker B:He went, oh, and like, 30 hall of Fame coach.
Speaker B:And he would just say, it sucked.
Speaker B:It was hard, but it got me so focused on process and just what can I control?
Speaker B:That it lasted with me and actually made him better.
Speaker B:So, yeah, when you say mentors, those are three that immediately pop in my mind.
Speaker A:Well, that's pretty impressive because I me, I hate losing.
Speaker A:That would have been a really rough year for me.
Speaker B:Oh, I told him I don't know if I would have survived it.
Speaker B:I probably would have stopped coaching after that.
Speaker A:I know I would have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what inspired you to write Impactful Coaching Project?
Speaker B:You know, so I became a head college coach at age 26.
Speaker B:And my co author, who's my great friend, we worked together a long time.
Speaker B:Dustin Gallian became a head coach at 24.
Speaker B:And there just wasn't a lot of stuff out there to help us grow that we at least were aware of and could find.
Speaker B:So we.
Speaker B:We just really bounced ideas off each other all the time and trial and error and had a lot of what we call expensive experience where we Weren't learning from others, just kind of learning on our own and, and just kind of felt good about some of the stuff we developed as I've become an AD, so I coach for about 10 years and administration for a while.
Speaker B:Something I found is coaches fail or when I have to step in and do my least favorite part of the job and have to let somebody go.
Speaker B:It's, it's rarely because of the X's and O's, so to speak of their sport.
Speaker B:It's relationship building, it's environment, it's culture, it's conflict resolution and we don't do a great job training in those things.
Speaker B:So about a year ago, a little over a year ago, we had had a donor come forward where I work now at Friends University and ask for proposals, kind of entrepreneurial type stuff that that donor is going to give $500,000 to.
Speaker B:So we wrote up the proposal.
Speaker B:We did not get it.
Speaker B:We didn't get the money.
Speaker B:We're like, hey, we think this is a good idea and we're passionate about it.
Speaker B:Let's give it a try.
Speaker B:So out of that we, we started speaking, we wrote the book, took about a year, we started a podcast and we're really just trying to figure out how do we, how do we take some of the hard learned lessons we've learned and share them with others?
Speaker A:So I know coaching has changed a lot in the last little bit.
Speaker A:What are some of the things you've noticed about coaching has changed the most?
Speaker A:I know I'm thinking about like Nick Saban.
Speaker A:He's like, he just walked away because like it seems like it's so much harder to coach today than it was before.
Speaker A:What is, what are you discovering in the coaching realm today that's different?
Speaker B:You know, I don't know, I.
Speaker B:So a friend of mine, a guy named Bruce Brown, who's among the wisest coach AD trainers you'll ever meet, I kind of asked him the same question and he actually quoted John Wooden who he spoke with at one point, which, which is awful cool, and said he doesn't think kids have really changed.
Speaker B:Parents and culture have changed and because we all have this fundamental need to be cared for and loved and that's never changed over time, which I agree.
Speaker B:But I think there's two ways though.
Speaker B:I think kids have changed.
Speaker B:One is access to information and social media.
Speaker B:So we're competing for their attention, whether it's parents, mentors, whatever, with a lot of different people and there's no filter on that information.
Speaker B:So the best marketer Wins.
Speaker B:And that's not a.
Speaker B:That's not, that's not a great thing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I, I think that also impacts them because they think there's always something better out there because the manicured image they see from somewhere else.
Speaker B:So I think, I think that's one place kids have changed and, and dealing with that, I think there's a lot of hurt.
Speaker B:I think there's a lot of doubt.
Speaker B:I think kids feel like they're living life on a stage because they kind of are.
Speaker B:They're putting it all out there, and that creates a lot of.
Speaker B:A lot of issues.
Speaker B:I think the other place has changed is in the last 20 years, we've really professionalized the youth sports experience.
Speaker B:We're living it right now where I've joked with my wife of a lot of the bad, hard problems I deal with when it gets to me and my role as an athletic director are almost family identity issues where family's been committed so long to sport, they come to college to play, then all of a sudden they're not.
Speaker B:They have a coach telling them they're not good enough, you know, they're not the best, whatever it means.
Speaker B:And, and that's a, that's a, That's a family identity, just not a kid identity issue.
Speaker B:But, like, my fifth, My fifth grade daughter is doing her first round of club volleyball this year, and we made her beg to do it.
Speaker B:Probably because I don't want to give up every Saturday.
Speaker B:I already work on those Saturdays, but I just see all that hurt around there.
Speaker B:I don't want our family life to revolve around it, but that's what people feel like they have to do.
Speaker B:And they are traveling 30 weekends a year to play in these tournaments.
Speaker B:And with the promise of, I don't know, a college scholarship or whatever it may be.
Speaker B:So in terms of how kids would change with athletics, I think they're a lot more.
Speaker B:Yeah, their lives have revolved around it for a long time.
Speaker B:And from my perspective, I don't think that's a very good thing.
Speaker B:I don't think that's a very good thing for the family.
Speaker B:I don't think that's a very good thing for.
Speaker B:Pick your part of society.
Speaker B:Because at the end of the day, if it's just about the sport, sports are kind of silly.
Speaker B:I mean, I'll throw a question back at you.
Speaker B:If I was an alien from outer space, didn't know anything, how would you describe football to me?
Speaker A:That's an interesting question.
Speaker A:It's just looking at it on the surface.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're trying to figure out why these two teams smashing into each other.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Trying to get to one end beside the other just to go over again.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so, so we've taken this thing that's supposed to be fun and professionalized it and there's so much good.
Speaker B:I mean I make my living in it, but if not done well and with intention can really be a bad thing for people.
Speaker B:So that's a very long winding answer to what you, what you asked me hopefully made sense.
Speaker A:No, it did.
Speaker A:And it reminds me of one of my favorite teams.
Speaker A:There was an athlete who was drafted by this team and his father could not let go of always being his hitting coach.
Speaker A:So he goes to the pros and he's still trying to listen to his dad as his hitting coach.
Speaker A:And he never really achieved what he could have achieved, it seems to me, because his dad couldn't let the professionals actually work with his son.
Speaker A:And now as far as I can tell, he's not been signed by any major league team right now.
Speaker A:And I'm going, I think that's, that's a story of so many athletes because we have invested so much time into our kids lives that we think we know them better than the professionals who may be now in charge of them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't know, my wife totally agree, disagrees with me on this perspective.
Speaker B:So let that be known.
Speaker B:And it will sound bad coming out but I intentionally don't go to all my kids athletic events because if they're, if they want to do it, they need to do it because they like it, not because ads come to watch it.
Speaker B:And hopefully that's not where they see their time with me.
Speaker A:So I like that.
Speaker A:So, so tell me how you developed this coaching impact project.
Speaker A:You say you it was kind of a, initially some.
Speaker A:Something that was possibly a project you were going to get funding for.
Speaker A:But tell me how it all developed.
Speaker B:So again my partner Dustin Galleon and I, Dustin is the talent of the two of us.
Speaker B:We joke because he's public speaker speaks all over the, all over the country.
Speaker B:Been doing it for 15 years.
Speaker B:But we learned to be head coaches together and, and we just talked like hey, someday we should do stuff.
Speaker B:We got really into about five years ago 3D coaching, which I think some of the best curriculum out there of how to coach holistically and impact kids.
Speaker B:And we have an official partnership work with them.
Speaker B:Our coaches do their training and as Dustin and I were kind of batting it around that proposal to that owner A year ago, you, over a year ago.
Speaker B:Like we got it on paper.
Speaker B:Like, you know, I think our stuff's pretty good.
Speaker B:I, I, I think there's a framework here that could be helpful to others and really it's just kind of gone from there and some speaking engagements have emerged.
Speaker B:We wrote that book.
Speaker B:I can't remember how we decided to do it.
Speaker B:I think it might have been out of the proposal.
Speaker B:We write a page or two and like hey.
Speaker B:And it was a really healthy process for us because it was getting our philosophy and kind of our approach just on paper and, and it just kind of grew from there and it's just me and him.
Speaker B:It's probably 15, over 15 years now we've been having these conversations and it's evolved to, we think we know a little bit now.
Speaker B:It'll, it continues to change though.
Speaker B:It's, it's a pretty fluid environment but it also feels like a life's work of how do we, we have this subset of our society that are so committed to athletics and a subset of that that's, it's so unhealthy.
Speaker B:And then we don't train coaches at all.
Speaker B:It's hey, your whistle.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker B:And if we can provide a framework for some to create healthier teams and communities, cool.
Speaker B:Let's, let's go do it.
Speaker A:What was the most surprising thing you discovered in your research.
Speaker B:So far?
Speaker B:So we do, we're lucky because we're on a college campus.
Speaker B:We're at Friends University in Wichita, Kansas and we do end of the year evaluations with every team we have here.
Speaker B:So 6, 700 responses kind of depending on the year.
Speaker B:So we worked with our institutional research board here and we ask a research question every year.
Speaker B:So we've started with motivation and what motivates you to participate in your sport.
Speaker B:And when I say it out loud, it doesn't sound shocking, but break it down, it is where the number one motivator for our kids at friends last year they said relationships and yeah, makes sense.
Speaker B:As a former coach, I think I've learned, I think we over inflate our importance as coaches.
Speaker B:But if you break down the relationship piece, what motivated them?
Speaker B:Number one was the relationship with their teammates.
Speaker B:Number two was relationship with family.
Speaker B:And then number three was coaches.
Speaker B:So that order really kind of surprised, surprised me and I think it goes into what we were talking about earlier of there's this family identity piece which I need, we need to figure out how to dive into and research because they've devoted so much time and money into the youth sports scene where kids get here and their family motivates them because they've been in it together for, for so long.
Speaker B:So that piece was, was really surprising.
Speaker B:This year we're trying to drill down on that research a little more where we're having, having kids and we're actually hopefully on the verge of partnering with another school to be able to get, get a broader sample size.
Speaker B:But we're asking kids to rank order because last year was just qualitative write it out.
Speaker B:And we spent lord knows how much time analyzing and now we're asking them to rank order which one of these are most important.
Speaker B:So it should let us drill down a little bit more, more on it and then, then dive into it.
Speaker A:So to solve the magic question everybody wants to know is how do you build a good team culture?
Speaker B:I think it's a moving target, but I, I think fundamentally human beings want to be part of community and they, they want to feel cared for.
Speaker B:And I think athletes want to get better.
Speaker B:So we talk a lot about thinking in systems and we have, we have three Cs within our book of how we break down kind of coaching.
Speaker B:And the first one is competence.
Speaker B:You have to know what you're talking about if you want to talk about one way kids have changed in the last 20 years, their access to information.
Speaker B:They're going to know if you're full of crap, you know, because they can go fact check you on everything.
Speaker B:So, so that, that's one.
Speaker B:Number two is care.
Speaker B:So systems of care of how do you create habits and relationships that make kids feel part of it and feel part of the community?
Speaker B:And we wrap in some 3D coaching stuff where I'm a big believer in what we call put ups or gratitudes, where we have a process to teach kids how to affirm each other because it's not a natural thing.
Speaker B:It makes everybody kind of feel awkward.
Speaker B:So you lean into it.
Speaker B:And we do that here at Friends a lot in the weight room because every kid goes in there.
Speaker B:So they end about every workout as a team with a, with a put up where they affirm somebody and a few people do it and they do a goofy cheer sometimes afterwards or they do gratitudes on what they're thankful for.
Speaker B:So that, that's one example.
Speaker B:Another example on a systems of care is and I credit our football coach Terry Harrison to this.
Speaker B:But how you go after the post game, how you do the post game talk, because after a game emotions are high, kids are tired and I've watched people break more relationships I did it as a coach because I was ticked after a game, didn't have a plan and said stuff I regret, you know.
Speaker B:So you're really trying to prepare for those moments when emotion, it comes into play and you don't and you don't blow it.
Speaker B:So we talk about in our book kind of here's a good idea of how to do a post game talk and in reality, whether you're coaching 12 year olds or 22 year olds at our level after the game they're tired and they're thinking about going to get dinner with somebody afterwards and they don't want to listen to the coach talk.
Speaker B:So why waste your breath?
Speaker B:So that and there's just a lot of systems we talk about to make kids feel cared for, part of a community.
Speaker B:And then number three of the C is constant and really it's can you have consistent character and heard there's a guy named Brett Ledbetter I heard talk.
Speaker B:He has an organization called what drives winning.
Speaker B:But he talks about how do you prepare yourself and respond.
Speaker B:Respond well in moments that take you off guard.
Speaker B:So how do you respond well to the surprises and not blow up relationships, you know.
Speaker B:So, so when you look at culture, I think it's hard, I think it's fluid.
Speaker B:But I think focusing on those things and the consistency of doing those things can really, really be a powerful thing and help create a better environment.
Speaker A:So I love coaching my kids, especially softball was fun for me.
Speaker A:I really tried my best.
Speaker A:You talked about creating that kind of a culture.
Speaker A:Make sure every person on the team felt cared for.
Speaker A:What practical tips do you have for somebody who may not be at a level that you worked with but maybe just on the, you know, Breckley coaching the softball team in the neighborhood.
Speaker A:But you want it, but that's place sometime where that, where that starts where kids either learn to love the sport or learn to hate it.
Speaker A:And you talked about also working with parents in that at that level too.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I think a couple practical things from coaches is being very intentional on the positive touches you have with kids in that it's something I've actually started doing here.
Speaker B:I don't remember why.
Speaker B:When I pass kids in our building just in my position, I'm the guy in charge.
Speaker B:That can be hard to approach.
Speaker B:So everybody I see, unless they're just staring at their phone, I try to give them a pound as I walk by, you know and I, I, I try to, if I see something I that that just was really good.
Speaker B:I show up at their post Practice and just give somebody a compliment.
Speaker B:So I think the more you can intentionally do some of those things, the better.
Speaker B:And depending on the age, something I really like that's so freaking simple.
Speaker B:I wish I would have, would have thought of it before is after practice, after a game like here it's I'm looking to our left because our stadium's out there.
Speaker B:There's about 150 yards between our stadium and our athletic building.
Speaker B:Have every coach walk in with somebody different person every day and just talk to them.
Speaker B:I think the same thing could be 12 year olds as kids are showing up, sit down and talk to them and, and the last thing, I'll share an ironic story with this but whether it's 12 year olds or 22 year olds, we all want to win where you play to win.
Speaker B:But in the long scheme of things, I don't know if winning matters all that much if you're not doing things well.
Speaker B:And I had a team, I guess it's my second or third year and I had a, had a new assistant named Zach Mercer, heart of gold.
Speaker B:But I was really angry at my team after a game because I thought they were so wrapped up on winning and kind of being arrogant and that kind of thing.
Speaker B:I get up there and I say, you know what?
Speaker B:I bet you can't tell me who won the national championship.
Speaker B:And I just threw out a random year and I'll be darn.
Speaker B:Zach Mercer raises his hand and told me right in the middle.
Speaker B:I was like, shut up Zach.
Speaker B:But I think the points proven of say at Fringe University, we win a national championship in football next year, 10 years from now, the kids on the team, their parents, the coaches and me are all the ones that are going to remember it.
Speaker B:So hopefully there's great relationships where they can enjoy it with it.
Speaker B:But so I, I think that's a few of just that intentional contact time making it positive.
Speaker B:And I see with my kids sports parents get more wrapped up in the coaches and winning and losing than the kids do.
Speaker B:So anything we can do to separate that out and enjoy what we're doing in the process, the better.
Speaker A:So what kind of feedback you're getting from coaches and readers who are reading your work there?
Speaker B:I got a call from a friend yesterday who told me he's buying the buffer.
Speaker B:Everybody in his athletic department.
Speaker B:And the critique feels weird.
Speaker B:Bragging about ourselves here was that it was too short but we tried to make it practical.
Speaker B:I think it's 120 pages just trying to, trying to keep it there.
Speaker B:But the positive Feedback we've gotten is that it's, it's practical and it's connected to today.
Speaker B:And I think that's something that is unique about what we're trying to do because Dustin's a head golf coach, public speaker at high schools mostly, and then I'm an ad.
Speaker B:We're on the ground working it every day, so, so we see what's going on.
Speaker B:So we like to think we're pretty practical.
Speaker B:The other, the other unique thing that's come up because we have the podcast, which has been going on about a year, is we've gotten some calls from peep high school parents that are like, you know what?
Speaker B:Our, our coach is a great person at our high school, but there's, there's no thought process to any of it.
Speaker B:What's your, how can you connect with them?
Speaker B:Or gosh, yeah, I, I didn't understand kind of the depth of things that can quite frankly go wrong in athletics.
Speaker B:And there's been that population.
Speaker B:What I, I didn't.
Speaker B:We're very surprised to hear from, but it's been fairly, I don't know if encouraged is the right word, but encouraging to, to be able to be helpful.
Speaker A:So you said that, you know, kids haven't changed really all that much.
Speaker A:But how do you see the role of coaching evolving in the next decade or so?
Speaker B:That's an interesting question.
Speaker B:I think coaches authority, this is hard to say because on one piece I think it's lazy to say, you know what, this generation doesn't get it because our parents generation said that about us and I'm sure their parents said it about them.
Speaker B:But I think gone are the days for coaches and I can't speak for the youth level, but I definitely think high school and college where coach said it, so you're going to do it.
Speaker B:So coaches credibility is, is relational and it's knowing what you're talking about.
Speaker B:And I only see that increasing the, the stuff going on at the, the major college level now with kids making millions, I see trickling down and professionalizing youth sports even more because now you don't have to be a pro to make money.
Speaker B:You can do it at the college level.
Speaker B:And I really worry what that does to the health of team sports and the memories and the things you can learn.
Speaker B:It's kind of interesting because where we're at, I know friends, we've had a lot of success, wins and losses, but the most growth I see out of teams or individuals is when they go through really hard things, you know, and when things don't go bad.
Speaker B:You have that losing streak and all that, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And I worry we'll lose sight even more of the value of that and going through, learning how to go through hard and coming out the other side with that team, you know, instead of I'm, you know, it's the coach's fault or it's the team, I'm bailing, I'm going over here because I can't risk my future when yeah, people know who the kids that are going to make money are by the time they're probably 14, you know, and there's, there's all this stuff.
Speaker B:So, so that's another piece I see changing.
Speaker B:Where I hope we're able as like impactful coaching project to help is we also see a better trained coaching world where coaches are getting trained in how to mentor kids well, build healthy environments, make kids feel cared for, better conflict resolution skills, all those different things.
Speaker B:And I'd like to think that is coming but it's such a big system, I don't know that I go back to.
Speaker B:We had a coach here, one from England and came to the States for college and then stayed.
Speaker B:But he couldn't get over the lack of training coaches were expected to have here and back at home.
Speaker B:And I think coaching training programs a lot of place are nationalized and almost federalized.
Speaker B:So there's some sort of safeguards in place.
Speaker B:And I don't think I'm in favor of the government taking over that piece, but some sort of more structured developmental stuff for coaches.
Speaker A:I was going to ask you that question.
Speaker A:You kind of kind of segued into that where would coaches go or where do coaches typically go to grow professionally and even in their own skills?
Speaker A:Is there like a coach institution or a coach?
Speaker A:I know umpires have it, but do coaches have places to go to get that kind of training in terms of.
Speaker B:Like learning the sport and coaching the actual sport, the X's and O's, the techniques.
Speaker B:There's so much information online, but there's also coaching associations.
Speaker B:So my, my past world was baseball coach and there's the abca which is the American Baseball Coaches association and they just had their convention last week.
Speaker B:And really that's where I learned to be a coach.
Speaker B:I'd go to that thing, take notes and follow up with the speakers and, and learn there.
Speaker B:So, so that piece, there's avenues there.
Speaker B:I think it's getting harder though because it takes a lot of wisdom to discern what's the good information, what's the bad Information in the social media age.
Speaker B:It's like I said it earlier, the best, best marketer wins.
Speaker B:And that's not always a good thing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So that's a place in terms of culture, conflict management, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:I've dug and dug and dug.
Speaker B:There's a few organizations out there.
Speaker B:There's proactive coaching with Bruce Brown and Rob Miller.
Speaker B:They're very good.
Speaker B:There's the 3D coaching, there's the positive coaching alliance.
Speaker B:And I'm sure there's more.
Speaker B:There's us, but there's not as many as you'd think, given the high stress of the job at the high school or college level and the expectations people place on you where, I mean, we all think of those stories where the, the high school coach or the college coach has held up to godlike status, which is crazy, but that's, that's the reality.
Speaker B:So let's train these people because they have massive influence.
Speaker B:Thoughts?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:So how has writing this book influenced your coaching philosophy and practices?
Speaker B:It's really helped us refine.
Speaker B:It's stuff we were doing without a common language.
Speaker B:And having that common language really, really, really helped.
Speaker B:And having a lens to look at it through helped.
Speaker B:And I think I've become annoying with Dustin because whatever issues we're facing or we're talking through problems, we can connect it to all these different things.
Speaker B:I think the other thing I learned as we were writing it is how little we actually know.
Speaker B:As you start writing, you start finding more resources.
Speaker B:And that book we've already started adding to, it's kind of become a working document, you know, because you just, you learn more and you write more.
Speaker B:And I think that's the.
Speaker B:That's the other piece where I hope, hope I can do this over my life, where we have actually a chart in there in the book.
Speaker B:I think we called it the Belichick Curve.
Speaker B:Like a big fan of Bill Belichick just because he was so good with the New England Patriots for so long.
Speaker B:And it fascinates me people that can be just that much perform at such a higher level for over a long period of time.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:I found an article and he really got criticized late in his career because he got kind of stubborn.
Speaker B:So we think on the front end and the back end of your career is where you may know the least, but you think you know the most.
Speaker B:And kind of where I'm at in this middle part of the curve right now, you realize how much you don't know and are just craving information.
Speaker B:So I, I hope in, in my career at least I can instead of kind of looping back down, just keep, keep growing, realizing there's so much I don't even know that I don't know and, and keep improving.
Speaker A:So you mentioned that people complained that the book was too short.
Speaker A:So what's the next step for you in the process?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I kind of gotten into right now and it goes with a lot of stuff.
Speaker B:We talked about teaching people to deal in pressure.
Speaker B:So I've been been reading a lot on that and then reading a lot on motivation.
Speaker B:So I think that might be some of the next steps there.
Speaker B:I think there might be be a book or a training or something eventually on the motivation research we're doing with our teams of here's what we found here, here's how we think it could be helpful.
Speaker B:So those are some things we're thinking about.
Speaker B:We also have one won't promote as much, but another book that actually should be self published this week that looks at from my chair like as an athletic director, leadership philosophy and some, some ideas on how to run things that came out of 2 years ago I gave a talk at a conference on kind of how we looked at developing coaches, hiring coaches, firing coaches, all that stuff.
Speaker B:And I had a 70 year old ad and a 28 year old ad come up to me afterwards saying I just wish there was something out there because this would have been helpful.
Speaker B:So just started putting thoughts on paper and when we did icp, we, we decided to go with that.
Speaker B:So that's a, that's another thing coming.
Speaker A:So here's a tough question.
Speaker A:How do you write this book without giving your competition a heads up on what you're doing?
Speaker B:Oh, I, I think a.
Speaker B:What's the, the Rising Tide statement, whatever that is.
Speaker B:I, I think it's.
Speaker B:I, I don't think I have it all figured out.
Speaker B:So it feels a bit presumptuous and odd to put a book out there in the world.
Speaker B:But I'm hoping there's a back and forth that can happen with people where we learn from each other and adapt over time.
Speaker B:But I also think what wins is consistency over time.
Speaker B:And I, and a lot of people, I don't know if they're willing to put in the time day after day, year after year on the mundane to be really good.
Speaker B:So I think hopefully that's our separator here.
Speaker B:But if there's more healthy teams out there and we lose a little less, I'm okay with that.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:I'd love to ask my guest this question, Rob, what do you want your legacy to be be?
Speaker B:You know, I've been in positions where I've always worked at faith based schools, which is really important part of my life, my faith.
Speaker B:And so I've been able to incorporate my faith in kind of the Christian values piece, which I think a lot of Christian values are universal values in some ways.
Speaker B:But, but I hope my legacy is that I'm a, that I was a values driven person that that cared about more than just results, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:So I'd say that probably be my my hope.
Speaker B:And print.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:Where can people find the Impactful Coaching project and connect with you on social media?
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:So we use our substack as our website.
Speaker B:So impactful coachingproject.substack.com and you, you can, you don't have to sign up, but you can see there's some more information there.
Speaker B:You can sign up and you'll get a weekly email or podcast from us.
Speaker B:You can find us on Spotify or Apple podcasts for our podcast called Beyond Coaching.
Speaker B:And then you can buy the book on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, anything like that.
Speaker B:And then if you put my contact info in the, in the show notes too, we, yeah, people are welcome to reach out and talk and buy the book, whatever.
Speaker A:Well, Rob, thanks so much for what you do and hopefully getting better coaching and better athletics and better athletes because I think athletes is such an important part of our lives and even our development and our growth.
Speaker A:So I always thank coaches for what they do to help form better students and better citizens of our country and world.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Thanks Keith.
Speaker B:Really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:I did too.
Speaker A:Thank you.
