Exploring the Essence of Wisdom: A Conversation with Dr. Laura Gabayan
Dr. Laura Gabayan, a distinguished physician, researcher, and author of "Common Wisdom," joins us to elucidate the essential elements of wisdom that can significantly enhance our lives. Her extensive research has identified eight pivotal components: kindness, emotional regulation, empathy, self-reflection, open-mindedness, decisiveness, perspective, and altruism. Dr. Gabayan shares profound insights from her interviews with individuals who exemplify these traits, revealing how their experiences of resilience and kindness shaped their perspectives on life. The conversation delves into the importance of humility in an increasingly self-centered digital age, along with the transformative power of positivity and curiosity. By embracing these eight elements, Dr. Gabayan advocates for a more fulfilling and meaningful existence, encouraging listeners to recognize that life's challenges can serve as catalysts for personal growth and understanding.
Dr. Laura Gabayan's insights into the nature of wisdom, articulated through her book "Common Wisdom," provide a rich examination of the eight elements essential to personal and communal flourishing. In our dialogue, she discusses how resilience, kindness, positivity, spirituality, humility, tolerance, creativity, and curiosity are not merely abstract concepts but practical virtues that can be cultivated in everyday life. Drawing from her extensive research involving interviews with individuals across North America, Dr. Gabayan reveals how these traits are often intertwined, each contributing to a deeper understanding of the human experience.
The conversation takes a reflective turn as Dr. Gabayan shares personal anecdotes and the transformative power of kindness—a quality that, despite cultural misconceptions, is pivotal in enhancing both individual and collective well-being. With a focus on humility, she references C.S. Lewis to illustrate that true humility stems from an awareness of others rather than a diminished view of oneself. This perspective is particularly relevant in a modern context where social media often promotes self-aggrandizement over genuine connection, prompting a reconsideration of how we engage with one another.
Ultimately, the episode serves as a call to action, encouraging listeners to embrace these elements of wisdom as a means of mastering life. Dr. Grabyau posits that by integrating these virtues into our daily lives, we can navigate challenges more effectively and foster a more compassionate society. Her work underscores the notion that wisdom is not a distant ideal but a practical framework for living meaningfully and authentically in the contemporary world.
Takeaways:
- Dr. Laura Gabayan, a distinguished physician and researcher, emphasizes the significance of kindness in fostering emotional well-being and resilience.
- The podcast discusses eight essential elements of wisdom, including kindness, humility, and curiosity, which are crucial for personal growth and societal improvement.
- Dr. Gabayan's research reveals that genuine human connections foster resilience and positivity, even in the face of adversity and personal challenges.
- The conversation highlights the transformative power of positivity, as it plays a pivotal role in enhancing one's quality of life and fostering meaningful relationships.
- The podcast underscores the necessity of humility, particularly in today's social media-driven world, where self-promotion often overshadows genuine interpersonal connections.
- Listeners are encouraged to embrace the notion that life presents challenges as opportunities for growth, reinforcing the idea that 'things happen for you, not to you.'
Transcript
My guest today, Dr.
Speaker A:Laura Grabyau, is a physician, researcher and author of Common Wisdom.
Speaker A:She has published extensively in scientific journals and a reviewer for the many high impact reviewer for many high impact journals.
Speaker A:She's also an engaging speaker and has given speeches to audiences of 1 to 5,000 individuals.
Speaker A:She attended UCLA for college, medical school residency and fellowship where she gained additional skills in research.
Speaker A:She's a two time valedictorian of both high school and college and tackles all pursuits with a passion to succeed.
Speaker A:We welcome her to the podcast.
Speaker A:Well, Dr.
Speaker A:Laura, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker A:How are you doing this fine day?
Speaker B:I'm great.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:It's good to have you on.
Speaker A:So I'm going to ask you my favorite question.
Speaker A:I ask all my podcast guests, what's the best piece of advice you've ever.
Speaker B:Received that I've received or I have found in my work?
Speaker B:I my advice or advice.
Speaker B:What I after talking to see people is things will work out.
Speaker B:Don't worry.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:Kind of like the, the old Bobby McFerrin song.
Speaker A:Don't worry, it'll work out.
Speaker A:Oh, actually don't worry.
Speaker A:Be happy.
Speaker A:I guess.
Speaker A:That's cool.
Speaker A:You know, I looked at your bio and you've had an extensive and very impressive history.
Speaker A:I'm curious along your journey, who are some people that serve to inspire you or maybe mentor you along the way?
Speaker B:I don't know if there was someone that inspired me to do what I did.
Speaker B:It just everything kind of fell into what.
Speaker B:For example, I knew I wanted to be a physician.
Speaker B:I was a girl, I grew up in the Middle east and women often didn't do that.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Then medicine.
Speaker B:I pursued research because of all the physicians, the ones most respected were the ones who did research.
Speaker B:So it just all kind of like depending on the environment.
Speaker B:I decided to pursue that, that whatever it was.
Speaker B:And then I wrote the book after I did the research about wisdom and I found these eight elements and I'm like, wow, this can really improve people's lives.
Speaker B:So I wrote the book Common Wisdom.
Speaker A:Afterwards, but you actually stole my next question.
Speaker A:What inspired you to write Common Wisdom?
Speaker A:But you know, I looked at your book and there are some, you know, really interesting parts to it.
Speaker A:And I'm going to kind of read the eight elements and we can, I'm going to ask you kind of maybe pick some of those that really resonated maybe more with you than others.
Speaker A:You talk about kindness, emotional regulation, empathy, self reflection, open mindedness, decisiveness, perspective and altruism.
Speaker A:Is there one of those eight that you think is maybe I know they're all important, but is there one that you would say this is really the.
Speaker A:One of the most important of those wisdoms to kind of master?
Speaker B:Well, I think you mentioned the sub themes.
Speaker B:The thing.
Speaker B:The elements that I found were resilience, kindness, positivity, spirituality, humility, tolerance, creativity and curiosity.
Speaker B:And of those eight, I really, I feel like they're all connected.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But I really connect with more or positivity, humility and curiosity.
Speaker B:And the reason is, is because positivity is.
Speaker B:It helps you be resilient.
Speaker B:It helps you kind of live a better life, have a good life, and we all deserve to be happy.
Speaker B:And humility is a great way to connect with others.
Speaker B:They don't need to know any of the degrees or whatever you've accomplished.
Speaker B:That's not going to change your interaction with others.
Speaker B:So it shouldn't make you feel big to make others feel small.
Speaker B:All it does have a major problem and curiosity is the foundation for a lot of it of all the day because it's, it's a way to wonder about, you know, what's out there, what's going on, what is not taking things at face value.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I just had a.
Speaker A:My podcast today, I released today actually is about a guy who talks about curiosity and leadership and, and how if you want to be a good leader, you have to always remember, be curious because it makes you a better leader.
Speaker A:So it's funny that you.
Speaker A:You talk about that because that was the release of my podcast today was on curiosity.
Speaker B:Well, I feel like the eight elements I discovered, resilience, kindness, positivity, spirituality, humility, tolerance, creativity, anchor us.
Speaker B:They're all great treats of a phenomenal leader.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I love for you to define for me humility.
Speaker A:That's a term that we don't wrap our minds around easily.
Speaker A:I know in my, my sphere as a pastor, we talk about humility.
Speaker A:Humility comes from.
Speaker A:From us looking at it as.
Speaker A:As we compare ourselves to God.
Speaker A:We have only one posture that is humility.
Speaker A:I'm curious how you define humility in your book.
Speaker B:I think it's in the idea for so C S Lewis said something by humility that has made me think that, you know, it's not about who like your place in the world is not as important as it is about your essentially the world itself.
Speaker B:So similar to you the way you're perceiving a person's place place compared to God.
Speaker B:But it's the idea that, you know, it's more important to understand the people around you.
Speaker B:And I don't know if I define it, but I definitely.
Speaker B:I have A quote from C.S.
Speaker B:lewis in my book.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:It'd be great.
Speaker B:Yeah, let me find it.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's such a great.
Speaker B:Here it is.
Speaker B:Hold on.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less.
Speaker A:Oh, I love that.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the idea is you are confident, you are grounded.
Speaker B:What you know, you are a substantial person, and you don't need people to hear that or know that because you're secure in who you are.
Speaker B:And that's the idea of humility.
Speaker B:You don't need to tell others about it just because you are who you are.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:So tell us about the research you did to write this book, because I'm curious.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I just got done my doctoral dissertation, so I spent a lot of time, last little bit doing research.
Speaker A:I'm curious, as you think, about the research you did, what surprised you in the research for this book?
Speaker B:Well, the reason I did it was because my body started to get all these symptoms, and I essentially fell apart.
Speaker B:And the people I.
Speaker B:I pursued, I was really interested in their medicine, kind of was ready to label me.
Speaker B:And so they didn't think outside the box.
Speaker B:The wise did.
Speaker B:And so I pursued wisdom.
Speaker B:And what surprised me the most was the second element of kindness, and that was because I'm Middle Eastern.
Speaker B:Kindness is viewed as weakness where I come from.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And it's not respected.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:And it's something I didn't grow up with.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:It was never something I thought about.
Speaker B:But yet the.
Speaker B:Of the 60 people I interviewed, you know, kindness was so important to them.
Speaker B:It was not only how they treated others, what they did for mankind, but also how they treated themselves.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:And I think we live in an age right now.
Speaker A:I think the last year or so, kindness has also kind of been something that's kind of gone out the window in our daily interaction with people.
Speaker A:And it so much impacts our inner being and spirit if we're always dealing with so much negativity in our life.
Speaker B:Well, you know, I always tell people that people will always remember how you feel, but not what you did.
Speaker B:And I know Maya Angelou talked about that a lot.
Speaker B:And if you're kind, they're gonna remember that.
Speaker B:They'll remember that way more than they'll remember you.
Speaker B:The people.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're nasty to each other, definitely.
Speaker A:So I look at your book and you've.
Speaker A:How do you combine the fields of psychology, neuroscience and psych and sociology into explaining the meaning of life and the work that you've done.
Speaker B:So to do any research project or anything, you have to see what's out there to begin with.
Speaker B:So I actually use psychology, sociology, Andrea's journals to kind of arrive at the people I spoke with.
Speaker B:That's when I realized that wisdom has an inversity relationship with age.
Speaker B:And that's why I only spoke with people who are 50, 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Speaker B:And, and that's where I also found the wisdom is not related gender, race, or, or ethnicity.
Speaker B:It is related to region.
Speaker B:And that's why I only spoke with people who were in North America, the US And Canada.
Speaker B:And, and, and it's funny because someone mentioned, how did you find these six Z?
Speaker B:I'm like, first of all, I had nothing to do with picking them.
Speaker B:That would mean I am the wisest.
Speaker B:And that's not how you do research.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You have nothing to do with who the your substitutes are.
Speaker B:And so I, I just advertise that we're looking for wise individuals and that's.
Speaker B:And one person to another, and they just grew.
Speaker A:I love that you talk about your sample size and how diverse it was.
Speaker A:What surprised you about the people you interviewed as you kind of dug deeper into this?
Speaker A:I know when I did my research, there were always some aha moments that came out of the research.
Speaker A:Did something surprise you from all these interactions?
Speaker B:You know, what surprised me was how much difficulty they had gone through.
Speaker B:And even resilience was their first thing.
Speaker B:Meaning was most common.
Speaker B:And people had gone through so much difficulty, so much.
Speaker B:You know, one woman lost two husbands and she was like, all you can do is laugh.
Speaker B:What am I going to.
Speaker B:What can I do?
Speaker B:And, and yet despite that, they were at such peace.
Speaker B:They were not bitter, they're not angry.
Speaker B:There's just such peace.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So besides kindness, what element do you think of wisdom is most overlooked in our society today?
Speaker B:Well, humility.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:The problem is we have the Internet with social media, and it's all about how, how you can show off to others, how you can be your Facebook page, how you.
Speaker B:You wish you lived your Facebook life.
Speaker B:And I'm like, like people are all about, you know, what others think.
Speaker B:And that's not what humility is about either.
Speaker B:So, so it's, I feel like that's definitely something that has taken a back seat.
Speaker A:So let's dig a little deeper because I'm curious, as you look at these case studies, can you share a case study that illustrates each of the eight elements of wisdom.
Speaker A:Because I'm just kind of that I think help us to kind of unpack some of the discoveries you made.
Speaker B:Well, each one, it's funny, I don't know if I've taught.
Speaker B:I sprinkled it into my book.
Speaker B:But the first I would definitely say being resilient with the two husbands she's lost was.
Speaker B:Was thing that her perspective.
Speaker B:Kindness.
Speaker B:One guy won't forget.
Speaker B:You know, kindness was so important to him towards living being that after he saw his sister passed away he became a vegetarian and he does not touch any animals.
Speaker B:And he also started to volunteer in a hospice because her last months were in a hospice as well.
Speaker B:And so kindness was such an important part to him.
Speaker B:Positivity.
Speaker B:It's funny, I had the one man.
Speaker B:So we assigned these.
Speaker B:Everyone most had two to five of the elements.
Speaker B:Only one person had all six, had all eight of the 60.
Speaker B:Only one person that had all eight.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And his name was Larry.
Speaker B:And when I spoke to him about.
Speaker B:I have a set of 10 questions.
Speaker B:Everyone looked at or answered for me open ended questions.
Speaker B:And when I asked Larry about how do you deal with difficulties in life?
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:Larry is the one that had always.
Speaker B:And he goes well, I never call anything a difficulty.
Speaker B:I reframe it right away.
Speaker B:And I'm like interesting.
Speaker B:So he's like I never.
Speaker B:And then he said something like, you know, I would never be in the weeds.
Speaker B:I would go to the mountaintops.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that was his philosophy is even from the get go that's not how you perceive it.
Speaker B:Spirituality.
Speaker B:I don't know if there was.
Speaker B:I definitely felt like most felt like there was something bigger than themselves.
Speaker B:They didn't know what that was, but they definitely did.
Speaker B:I don't know if there was an instance.
Speaker B:I mean there was one person to talk about how she every morning has breakfast with God and in that breath.
Speaker B:Because it's not, you know, prayer is importanter and it's not the idea that she communicates with God.
Speaker B:It's her kind of hopes and wishes that she puts out there.
Speaker B:And so prayer was a big one in spirituality and.
Speaker B:And humility.
Speaker B:You know it's funny because I.
Speaker B:I interviewed many and humility was my fifth element.
Speaker B:But it was fascinating.
Speaker B:I spoke with one guy who sold a hundred million copies.
Speaker B:He's a record producer.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:He sold 100 million copies of record before the age of the Internet.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And a news.
Speaker B:He had a, you know, you know a national news network went to his home.
Speaker B:He had awards about doing Saturday Night Fever.
Speaker B:And the Bee Gees and Barbara Streisand all like in a corner.
Speaker B:He could care less about that.
Speaker B:And I was just fascinated.
Speaker B:And that was humility.
Speaker B:So and then after humility was tolerance.
Speaker B:And I think the idea of tolerance is again being open minded.
Speaker B:As scientists, it's very important to me that you are unbiased and open minded and non judgmental in whatever you pursue.
Speaker B:And that was really, you know, something I found.
Speaker B:And the next two, last two, creativity and curiosity.
Speaker B:Those are elements that people don't realize that we all have in us.
Speaker B:Think about what you, you were as a kid, you created.
Speaker B:You know, you took the most random things a sheet and you turned to fort and you were curious, you asked why all the time.
Speaker B:And we tend to forget that about ourselves or we take it out of ourselves that we let life get in the way.
Speaker B:And I, I get it, we have responsibilities.
Speaker B:But it, it doesn't mean that you still can't be curious and creative.
Speaker A:Sure, you talked a little bit about how your background made some of those elements harder for you to have, like kindness.
Speaker A:I'm curious.
Speaker A:Did you study how cultural differences and perceptions impact those wisdoms in different societies?
Speaker B:I did not, but I, the only thing I found, as I mentioned, is how, how wisdom is defined differently.
Speaker B:Different regions.
Speaker B:For example, wisdom in, in Asia is different than wisdom in the Middle East.
Speaker B:And that's why I stuck to only North America.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It seems as if people may bring, you know, their teachings with them if they move somewhere.
Speaker B:So a culture can be influenced, influential, but at the end of the day they end up acting, assimilating whatever is the region they're in.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Since you did study North America, what trends have you noticed here in America that move us either closer to the eight wisdoms or and ones that move us farther away from the eight wisdoms?
Speaker B:I don't know if there's any.
Speaker B:I mean the how I defined it were the eight based on North America.
Speaker B:I don't think anyone else has done a look into what they are anywhere else and how they differ.
Speaker B:My work was probably the worst, the first that looked at even wisdom.
Speaker B:And, and the reality is, and this is why I believe that things happen for you and not to you.
Speaker B:I mean, think about it.
Speaker B:We had Covid a few years ago, right.
Speaker B:And the only reason I was able to do this was because my interviewees were very comfortable with zoom or just comfortable with, you know, having Internet interviews.
Speaker B:They would not have been like this had it been five years before.
Speaker B:So I, so that's Why I believe that things just happen in your favor and people don't realize that fever is not necessarily a good thing in every situation.
Speaker B:You know, I'm sure, you know, I had one moment in my interview is who lost a child and a grandchild.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And she was divorced and I think ex husband tried to kill her a few times.
Speaker B:She had really gone through a lot.
Speaker B:And it was not that those things are happy events in any way are beneficial, but she learned a lot from them.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's, that's amazing.
Speaker A:As you think about where we are today in our society, do you see that people are more open to embracing those wisdoms or are they more.
Speaker A:Because you're doing something that's kind of on the cutting edge?
Speaker A:How do you get people to understand that these eight basic, these eight common wisdoms are something that is kind of beneficial for their spirit and for their whole being?
Speaker B:Well, wisdom is not really relevant, I think, because we are all.
Speaker B:Life's difficult, difficult.
Speaker B:We're all trying to get by.
Speaker B:And so the last thing people think about is, oh, let me improve my ex.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:I think if, if what I have found is that, okay, so these do define wisdom, but in reality they're the keys to be living a very successful life, mastering life.
Speaker B:So again, I apologize, but if I, if I slur my speeches because of my health problem.
Speaker A:Oh, no problem.
Speaker B:And so I just feel like the eight are.
Speaker B:You can think of them in a way to, you know, eat elements to master life and you read about them.
Speaker B:Yes, they happen to be the definitions of wisdom.
Speaker B:But I think if you embrace those eight, you will leave more, live a more meaningful life.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:So you said that your research is probably on the cutting edge of this.
Speaker A:I always thought my.
Speaker A:So if someone were to try to pick up where you started, what do you see as the next step in this research?
Speaker B:No, it's funny because someone in the research world, you know, whenever you publish papers, the last program is the author's kind of future vision.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:What is the next step?
Speaker B:And I have written plenty of that and I, you know, everything has next step.
Speaker B:But I don't think understanding this topic has next up.
Speaker B:I think it's really just helping people develop these that, I mean, I, I did such extensive work and it was so hard to find them.
Speaker B:So hard, you know.
Speaker B:You know, people talk about define intervention.
Speaker B:I'm like, that was the final invention.
Speaker B:Finding those six all over the US and Canada.
Speaker B:Just funding them was divine intervention.
Speaker B:Like how they had to go through so many loops to set up a call with me to have it be interviewed and I had a research assistant said that it was, it was just unbelievable and that I just don't see it having another step to it.
Speaker A:I, I wonder is as you talked about that though I, I was thinking maybe the next step is how do you help people to foster these eight wisdoms, how you help them develop them.
Speaker A:Is there a process to teach this or enhance it if you already, you know, I mean kind of is it more of a taking these eight things and how do you make put those into practice in your life?
Speaker B:Well, you know, at the end of each chapter I have things to ask yourself and so I and those people just love them because it made them more self reflect and think.
Speaker B:I recently, I want to say early December came out with a journal that has more of those things to ask yourself based on those eight elements and that is, that's also on Amazon.
Speaker B:So there is a common wisdom journal that's out as well and that's more of this because people loved it.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day I think the original is the book.
Speaker B:I think you don't have to have the book to do the journal.
Speaker B:You can do the journal first and think to yourself I'll get the book after.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I think it helps you think about yourself more.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:So what do you hope when people pick up this book they get out of it?
Speaker B:First of all, it's an easy read.
Speaker B:The book is such an easy read.
Speaker B:I was tired of writing such boring manuscripts that I made sure that this was simple but powerful that you, that I got my points across without it being complicated.
Speaker B:And secondly, I'm very to the point as a scientist you have to be what you would write in a paragraph.
Speaker B:You have to write in the like a sentence.
Speaker B:So the book would only take someone a few days if that.
Speaker B:I, I really feel I know in their views if someone reads my Amazon reads, they'll see that the book changes the way they think, has changed lives, someone said, saved their marriage.
Speaker B:I just think it will impact people positively and, and that's what it is done so far.
Speaker A:I love to ask my guests this question as you think about the impact you're making with this book and maybe future projects.
Speaker A:What do you want your legacy to be?
Speaker B:I want my legacy.
Speaker B:You know, it's funny because I, I, I often say I wish I took my own advice and my thoughts are to live in faith and not in fear.
Speaker B:And I'm sure I lived in fear my whole life.
Speaker B:I had to become doctor I once had being dog I had to get this at this that so I'm sure I was always living in fear.
Speaker B:But I think if you tell someone live in faith, have some faith, you will not it will be okay.
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:That's the biggest lesson and that's what I want people to realize.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:What are you working on next?
Speaker A:What's your next major project?
Speaker B:Oh, I'm not working.
Speaker B:I mean just so no idea.
Speaker B:There's no additional part.
Speaker B:I just feel like there's so much wisdom in this book, comrades and there's so much peace and there's.
Speaker B:It can change lives.
Speaker B:There's so much in there that my.
Speaker B:My current goal is get the word out about it.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:Is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have asked you?
Speaker B:No, I think that's it.
Speaker A:Well, as we wrap this up, first of all where can people find and buy the book common wisdom and connect with you on social media?
Speaker B:So the original website I used when I found my 60 was the wisdom research project.com that links to my website which is Laura gan.com and that's the one.
Speaker B:But they people may not remember that Laura.com and the book and the journal are both sold on Amazon and I think it just changes.
Speaker B:Lives are great.
Speaker B:All the gift is just.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I, I just.
Speaker B:There's not enough words of how much value it has.
Speaker B:It's priceless and timeless and what these people had to say was really important.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker A:As you wrap up this amazing conversation, what are the key takeaways you want the audience to walk away from our.
Speaker B:Discussion with Know that things work out and live in faith and non fear and whatever happens.
Speaker B:Life is difficult but it's happening for you and not to you.
Speaker A:Well Dr.
Speaker A:Laura, thanks for taking the time out in this busy season to share with us the work that you did, the research you've done and the words of wisdom that you have for all of us to kind of start the new year out.
Speaker A:So thank you for what you did and the research you did.
Speaker B:Thank you.
