Embracing Diversity and Leveraging Natural Strengths in Leadership
Lori Mazan, a leadership coach and author, discusses the importance of trust, authenticity, and adaptability in leadership. She emphasizes the need for leaders to trust their own decision-making and to have a strong internal compass. Mazan also highlights the significance of adapting to the changing environment and embracing diversity in leadership. She encourages leaders to leverage their natural strengths and surround themselves with complementary team members. Mazan's book, 'Leadership Revolution: The Future of Developing Dynamic Leaders,' challenges traditional leadership approaches and offers insights on developing exceptional leadership skills.h
Transcript
Laurie, welcome to the podcast. How you doing today?
Lori Mazan (:I'm doing great, thanks for having me, Keith.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:It's so good to have you on. I love to talk about leadership. That is my passion. So I'm looking forward to this conversation.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, it's my passion too. And not just the leadership, the development part of it is really my passion. Yeah.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Yes, yes, that is fun. I've invested my life in several young leaders, so it's been fun to kind of walk alongside them.
Lori Mazan (:fantastic.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So I get to know you a little bit better. Give me the best piece of advice you've ever received.
Lori Mazan (:Thank you.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, you know, I thought about this and I have to really credit my father. I grew up in Virginia and when I was 21, I moved to California. And at that time, we didn't have mobile phones and all of that. And my father wrote me a letter and his letter basically was saying, trust your own decision -making.
Like he said, I've seen you over the last like 21 years and you should trust your own decision making and I trust your decision making. And that was so profound for me. I still have that letter like almost 40 years later. Yeah.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Wow, that's impressive. And it's a great reminder when someone pours into you and believes in you, it changes everything.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, yeah. It just was like this vote of confidence that was so powerful, especially my, you know, starting a new life in a very different culture and way of operating like Virginia and California is like night and day, right? And so to just have that like, like infusion of, of support was, was really profound.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's awesome. I looked at your bio and I noticed that no one ever gets where they are without people coming alongside them. Who are some people in your life who served as an inspiration for you? Tell us a little bit about them and give them a shout out.
Lori Mazan (:Thanks.
Lori Mazan (:because I'm going to answer this differently probably. I would say there's like two sets of folks that have been very inspirational for me. One set is the people who I've served or wanted to serve. So I started very early even in high school being a counselor at a youth center and I just saw...
how many people really had to work hard to advance themselves and develop themselves in some very, very trying circumstances. And I felt those, all of those people, so many of them were incredibly inspirational. And I felt like if they can do that, my situation, although, you know, everybody has their hardship, it was, you know, basically,
survivable, like I feel like, hey, if they can do it, I can do it, you know? And I would say the second is I became a coach fairly early in my career, and I've had a series of coaches over time, all of whom who have been just amazingly supportive and not just inspirational, but, you know, inspiration plus pushing me, right? So they're not just,
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Second is I became a coach fairly early in my career and I've had a series of coaches over time. All of them have...
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Coaching is not something that...
Lori Mazan (:say what they did and then I'm trying to emulate it. They were amazing people in their own right, but their whole point was, no, you can do it, you, you, you. Don't hold back, just you reach your potential. That's how you really serve everybody.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:those people think about doing. What led you to want to coach leaders?
Lori Mazan (:Thank you.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, it's really a great question because it wasn't a straightforward path. Okay. So I started out as the youth counselor. I went to college and became a social worker and then moved to San Francisco, worked for Children's Home Society, Emergency Shelter Care Program, which was for children newborn to 18 that were in some kind of neglected or dangerous situation.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:in some kind of neglected or dangerous situation. And I did that for quite a few years, two, three years, let's say. And it just broke my heart.
Lori Mazan (:And I did that for quite a few years, two, three years, let's say, and it just broke my heart. I just thought, if I do this for a whole career, I'm going to be the most jaded person. And I just can't, I wanted to adopt all those kids. I just was too tender -hearted for it.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I just thought if I do this for a whole career, I'm going to be the most jaded person. I just wanted to adopt all those kids. I just wanted to take care of them.
Lori Mazan (:So I went back to school and became a therapist. I got a master's degree, got licensed as a therapist and hated it. And the reason I hated it was because it was all about the past. And I kept wanting to ask this one question, which is like, what have you done differently since the last time we spoke?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I was a mental therapist and hated it. And the reason I hated it was because it was all about that.
One question, which is like, what have you done differently since the last time we spoke? And all of my supervision and everything, everyone told me, you can't ask that. It was, at that time, kind of a medical model of therapy. And you had to go back and heal the past. And my point of it was like, wait, these people are in trouble right now.
Lori Mazan (:And all of my supervision and everything, everyone told me, you can't ask that. It was at that time kind of a medical model of therapy and you had to go back and heal the past. And my point of it was like, wait, these people are in trouble right now in the moment. Let's help them get on better footing first. And then if we can heal the past, great. But if not, at least they'll be on better footing. So I never practiced that.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:If you can feel the past race, but it's not a movie out there.
Lori Mazan (:But I had now I had this degree. So I went and taught college psychology for a while. And then from there, I went into training and development and got into the corporate world training and development. And about 10 years after all of this, suddenly in the early 90s, there was this thing called coaching. And they were asking my question, what have you done differently since the last time we spoke? And I was like, what is the thing I've been waiting for?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So I went into psychology for a while. And then from there, I'm going to talk about the
you
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:my question.
Lori Mazan (:So I ran and got certified as a coach right away. It was like one of the first 200 certified coaches in the world actually, because they were just newly certifying people. It doesn't actually mean anything. But I was just early to the profession and just fell in love with it and very quickly got into coaching leaders. And the reason I like coaching leaders really
reasons. One, they're often quite self -motivated, but the other is their impact's exponential. So if I coach an individual, they have a small, let's say a small pond, they have their community pond maybe, their family pond, but a leader can have a much larger pond, so every person that I'm impacting is now impacting a lot more people and I really love that.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:made it. But the other is they're just half extra.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Maybe their family's on.
Lori Mazan (:you know, expanded or exponential impact. So I got into coaching leaders and organizations and did it for 20 years. And then I just felt like, wait, I still need more impact than this. Like, I'm still getting only a small slice impacting a slice of the pie. So then I started sounding board with another woman who had been a previous coaching client of mine.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:And that I just felt like, wait, I still need more impassiveness.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:with another woman who has...
Lori Mazan (:And our whole point was to bring the gift of coaching to all leaders in organization, or even potential leaders, pre -leaders, people who wanna be leaders, informal leaders, not just the people at the top of the house, because in my career, I mostly coach people who are in the C -suite. And so bringing it really to a much more diversified audience is gonna serve everybody.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:was to bring the, you know, the instant coaching to all leaders in organizations, or even potential leaders.
years.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I love that story. I got into coaching because when I was a young leader, I didn't know what I was doing. And so I sought out someone who did know what they were doing. And I ran across John Maxwell. And I'm like, this is what leadership looks like.
Lori Mazan (:I'm sorry.
Lori Mazan (:I don't know how I -
Yep. Wow. So you got one of the original OGs, right?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's right. Yeah. And I went to every seminar he did. I bought every book he wrote and I just dove into that. And then what I realized early on, like you did, is I'm called to lead others. So I started coaching my church staff and we started every single meeting every month with me spending, showing them the video 21 irrefutable laws. And we went through and I taught that to my leadership team. So it was like, you're right. It's about exponentially.
Lori Mazan (:Right?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:exploding what the potential is as you pour into people and coaching.
Lori Mazan (:Yes, yes. And you know, I actually had a period where I coached a lot of different religious leaders, both in traditional and in Eastern religions. And one thing I found out, none of them had any leadership training, right? They had a lot of, say, biblical training or pastoral training, but none of them had any leadership training. And yet they were running, some of them, very large congregations.
And it was really hard on them to not really have the background to do that well, because of course their intent was to do that well. So I thought it was interesting, there wasn't a lot of training. It's the same with like engineers, they get like all this deep training, but none of it's on leadership. And now they're the engineering manager and they have 300 people under them and they don't know what to do.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:You're right. I'm curious for someone like yourself who focuses on leadership, ask a person who's working with managers this question. How would you differentiate between leadership and management?
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
Lori Mazan (:that's a good question. So I have a very simple definition of leadership, which is you are not a leader unless people want to follow you. Because unless people are following you, you're not leading. You're just walking along by yourself. For managers, I don't often think they are, again, trained or taught or even think about having people follow them.
The frame of reference is more like I have to do something to them to get things done. And to me, a manager should be a leader, is a leader, but then they have to think about how are they going to get the work done with other people, not by making other people do it. You know, anything where you're having to use that kind of force. Now you're not leading.
you know, leading, because people aren't coming with you, you are dragging them along or pushing them or something like that. And I always use this little example of a string. If you just put a string on the table and you try to push the string, it just gets all balled up, right? It does, nothing happens. But if you pull the string and the string's falling, now you get the nice, you know, extended thread.
So to me, managers are leaders. They often just don't operate like leaders and we would all be better if they did.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I love that. So let's dive into your book, Leadership Revolution, the Future of Developing Dynamic Leaders. What led you to write that?
Lori Mazan (:K, EIGHT!
Lori Mazan (:Having been in the kind of development, let's just say development industry my whole career, and then leader development in the second, maybe two -thirds, I have just seen the environment change so dramatically over the last 30 years, and I have seen the way we develop leaders not changing.
And so I really, I made the title Revolution and I don't mean it necessarily like revolution, like a violence or something. I mean it like revolution, that wheel is turning, it's revolving. And for us to develop leaders that can really be impactful in the current environment, we're gonna have to do it differently. And almost,
all the leader development approaches, even John Maxwell, all came out of the last century, right? Now, many people have updated, the individuals particularly, but all of those old 360 assessments, the basic thinking that skills is all there is, like if you have skills, you're gonna be good. The models of leadership, like if you have these five traits, you'll be a good leader.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:basic thinking that skills is all there is.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:you
Lori Mazan (:None of that actually works anymore, right? Our environment is too different. It's so much more complex. It's so much more unpredictable, so much more diverse, so much more time people are spending in the unknown, not knowing what's coming next. And just like the most simple thing, like last century we had maybe like two or three generations in the workforce.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Thank you.
Lori Mazan (:Now we have five or six generations in the workforce and they're very different. The oldest generation wants something entirely different from the youngest generation. And so if you're just having one old style way of being a leader, you're probably not going to be that successful in the current and future environment. So really, not to diss anything from the past, it was perfect for that environment.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Really?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:But now everything is done.
Lori Mazan (:But now everything externally has changed and we just haven't changed how we're developing leaders.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So you said something I want to dig a little deeper into. You said leadership is different now than it was in the past. How is it different?
Lori Mazan (:to break.
Lori Mazan (:In the 70s, 80s, 90s even, leadership was this command and control kind of approach. Like there was this big distinction, I'm a leader, you're a follower, and I tell you what to do, and it's my way or the highway, right? That worked at that time for a couple of reasons. The environment was more predictable.
t trying to say, this is like:And so the same in the work environment. It's just not operating that way anymore. You don't, you know, but pandemic's a great example. Like we didn't haven't faced that in the last 50 years. And suddenly you have that. And if you don't have any versatility as a leader, if you can't adapt, if you can't think out in the future, if you can't respond in different ways and then something unknown hits you in the face.
-suite, right? And then after:women and now more still we could obviously go a lot farther down that pathway. But still the environment's more diverse, gender, ethnic background, you know, all the political points of view and gender diversity and just so many different things now that weren't in play back in the 70s, 80s, 90s.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:of the few gender diversity of so many different families that weren't in play back then.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So we always, in my study I did my doctoral work, I studied the different kinds of leadership and how it impacts change in the church. And it was funny because I was taught throughout my entire doctoral program that the best kind of leader to be was a servant leader. In my research, I discovered that servant leaders struggle to really make organizational change.
Lori Mazan (:Mm -hmm.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, and why? Why? Because of course, doesn't it make sense? Serving leaders the best leadership? I thought that too.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Yeah, and it was transformational. It wasn't servant leaders actually. So what you're describing though is we can't get caught up in a type in this workforce. So is there a new kind of leader that we haven't even discovered yet, that we haven't put a category on yet, that you've discovered in your work as a coach?
Lori Mazan (:Yes. Yep.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
Yes, I think so. So I'll tell you a story of that old style. At one point, some books came out and it identified a charismatic leader as the best kind of leader. And I had a client who was, because I had a lot of companies in the sciences and technology. And so this was somebody who was a scientist and he was.
very introverted, you know, his whole life was looking in a microscope. And, but he read this and he thought he should be charismatic. So he tried to be charismatic and everyone, this is how I got to coaching him. Everyone was like, what's wrong with him? What happened to him? Because it was just so fake. They thought he was drinking. And that's why they brought me in to try to.
help him and then later after I talked to him I found out no he was trying to be charismatic and I was like look you know you are now that's not who you are you're never going to be that you were doing fine before let's enhance the things that you do have instead of trying to start something new that you don't have and so he stopped being charismatic everyone gave a big sigh of relief there.
And then we just doubled down on his strengths and he was very successful. So I would say the new approach to leadership is not what anybody's telling you from the outside. It is blending your natural traits with some sets of capabilities and capacities that work in your current context.
Lori Mazan (:So for example, what might work in having organizational impact in a church or religious environment might be different in a company in England or something. Like it's just not gonna be the same so that contextual piece of it is really important. And it really takes a coach or somebody, a mentor or even a pastor to help you identify,
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:is really important and it really takes a coach.
Lori Mazan (:what are your key traits, and then how do you apply those key traits in this current context to support the outcomes that you're looking for. So it's a little bit of like 3D chess. There's like, you're putting together a few pieces to create this unique leadership approach that's very specific to you and what you're doing.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Yeah.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So in your coaching, how do you help people discover their, you, there are, I like that we use your book, Your Authentic Self. How do you show up as an authentic leader? Because like you said, that, that Warren poor guy all of a sudden trying to be charismatic, people thought he was drinking. So how do you not come off as inauthentic because you're trying to be something that you're just not?
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, you know, I mean, I think it all does source back to your sense of self -awareness. And in the early, you know, people's early careers, they often are trying to be someone else because they've read so much about how you have to be to be successful. And when they go back and be like, wait a minute, who am I really? And they start to identify that there really is this huge sense of relief for people.
which is like, really I can be who I, you know, my God given person and still be successful. I don't have to try to be somebody else. Yes. And that doesn't mean you don't have to enhance some of those things, but you want to start, you know, the foundation is basically who you are. And so starting to really get clear on who that is and some ways to do that. Like what are the things you like to do when things are really, really hard?
and you're straining that it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, but maybe that's not your most natural attribute. The things where you find you're having more impact, those are your more natural attributes. When you feel like you're in the flow or kind of in your element, right? Like I bet you feel this a bit with your podcasts, like...
You know, when you're in the flow of the conversation, you know, it's a natural element for you. Someone else is going to be nervous in a podcast and not, you know, right. So it's like really doing a self assessment and figuring out where your highlights are. And the old style approach was like, know your highlights and your challenges and then fix your challenges used to be the old style.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Right.
Lori Mazan (:My approach is not know your highlights and then get people around you that have the highlights that you don't have. So now you're operating as a team and you're complimentary and other people can contribute. So it doesn't all have to be about you. The last century approach was like, as the leader, you had to have everything yourself. Like who's going to have everything? Nobody. Right. And if you think you do now you've been pretty delusional and egocentric. Right.
So instead, figure out and really apply what you're good at and supplement that around you. We'll have people who are good at the things that you're not.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So as you're trying to help your coaches figure out themselves, do you use assessments like say a Myers -Briggs or have you moved to something else? Because I know Myers -Briggs, in my memory of Myers -Briggs, it's impacted by your environment and where you're at in that moment. So if you're in a stressful situation and you take the Myers -Briggs, you may come off as one thing. Like I remember when I was in the parish, I came off as a high D and a high I.
much less I have a much higher D. When I moved to this role when I was more of a facilitator, my D went down and now I have a much higher I. And so it's shifted.
Lori Mazan (:Mmm, okay.
Well, but that's a good thing because any of those things can provide information as long as you don't treat them like it's the truth, right? They're models. Like, you had a great quote that I love. He said, learn your models well and then set them aside when you encounter the miracle of the human soul. So, models can help you.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Right.
Lori Mazan (:but they're not gonna tell you who you are. I like a model that's a more behavioral model. It's not who you are on the inside. It's how you show up on the outside. And I like that because you can see it from the outside. And the premise of that model is not that one way of showing up is better, but that the more adaptable you are, the more successful you're gonna be.
And that adaptation means to the context you're in. So look, you move to a different role. And so different of your strengths came to the forefront. If you're in a different context, different strengths might come to the forefront. If you're an individual contributor or a parishioner, some of your strengths might be really appropriate there. Some others might not. Right? So.
Being able to adapt to your environment is really, it's sort of like the basic biological premise too, like the species that adapt are the ones that evolve over time. Same for leadership.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I love that. I was talking to a friend of mine, we were trying to compare our leadership styles. And he asked me if I could define what my style was. I'm like, well, it's a combination. Sometimes it's charismatic and sometimes it's transformational. When I'm presenting, it's charismatic, but I can't live in that charismatic style. And it makes me kind of uncomfortable because I think people sort of follow that charismatic style. So I kind of, I don't like...
tap into my full charismatic nature, I guess I would say. But the other part of me, I prefer to kind of rest in the transformational leadership style. So I tell them it's kind of a situational thing.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah. Yes. And like if you're in a speaking role or in a role where you're meant to be inspirational, turning on your charismatic abilities, it's like to kind of like turn in the volume up, right? It's really useful, but maybe in a one on one and if I may be grieving or something, you having that volume of your charismatic style.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Right.
Lori Mazan (:High isn't gonna be a fit, right? I'm like, whoa, you need to tone it down a little bit. So it's more like adjusting all the frequencies that you're operating on based on what's happening in front of you. And obviously the more places you can adjust, the better fit you're gonna be for whoever's there with you.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:All right, so here's your chance to impact the audience. What's the secret to exceptional leadership?
Lori Mazan (:Very funny you should ask that because we actually created a model for that. Because my coaching like little tagline was transforming brilliant scientists and technologists into exceptional leaders. So to do that, I had to kind of identify exceptional leaders and you're probably gonna like it because the number one trait is your internal compass, let's call it.
the part inside you that keeps you directed where you need to go. And you can actually cultivate that. And it's very important to cultivate that because when you're in a leadership role, you have a lot of pressures coming at you from all ways. Everybody wants something from you. And if you don't have a strong central compass there, we call it central equilibrium.
In other words, when all those forces are pushing you, you're not falling over. You have that internal strength to just stay upright in integrity with yourself, regardless of those forces. And so that really is the key to exceptional leadership. And what's probably interesting for many people is like a spiritual core is really important to that.
So one of the ways to develop that is through your spiritual life. Another way to develop that, which I've used, is through the martial arts. So we're mentioning your sword in the background because the core of the martial arts is this internal balance. You can also develop it just from being in your life and really working to not get knocked over by the things that are hitting you.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:you
to develop that, which I use just through the martial arts. You were mentioning your sword in the back. That's it. And more of the martial arts is just in the middle of the battle. You can also...
Lori Mazan (:The image I like to use, I call it the eye of the storm, where if you see those pictures of the hurricane going and it's all swirling around, but right in the middle it's quiet. And still when the plane goes through there, it's all sunny and bright inside there. If you can just stay in the eye of the storm.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:I call it the eye of the storm.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:It's all funny and bright inside there. If you can just stay in the eye of the screen.
Lori Mazan (:you can actually see sort of 360, all the stuff that's swirling around you and you can make better choices because you're balanced. You're not off balance and then making a choice from an off balance place. So that sort of central equilibrium, compass, integrity, you probably have some words for it. Whatever is that internal core inside yourself.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:you
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:So that sort of central.
Lori Mazan (:It's really the secret to exceptional leadership.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Wow, okay, great. Now I can go be an acceptor because you gave me the secret. Thankful.
Lori Mazan (:Well, if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it, right?
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's right, exactly. I'm curious, Lori, what are you excited about in this season of your life?
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
Lori Mazan (:you're surprising me to this one. Let's see. So I am entering, like I already retired from my career and then I kind of started another career that I didn't realize I was gonna start. I'm like the oldest startup founder in the book because my company is backed by Silicon Valley people. And so I didn't really think I was going to be doing that, but here I am. So I don't know.
next but I'll say this I you know obviously in the last part of my career I feel so much freedom to do what I want be what I want operate how I want I like all of this stuff you have when you're coming up where you're like trying to please other people and trying to get a reputation and trying trying trying trying.
I feel like I am having the opportunity now to not quote try, but really take everything I've learned and give it back to others. And that was part of the book, just putting all that stuff I learned over all those years in a book. I've just poured it into the company's sounding board. And I really hope those are things that help people over time, even when I'm not, you know.
personally here pushing them along.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's awesome. You've spent your life pouring into people. When your last coaching session is ended, what do you want your legacy to be?
Lori Mazan (:I mean, kind of back to that internal compass that I feel satisfied with what I've offered in this lifetime. And I can lay in my bed, death bed and say, you know, hey, in my own estimation, I did well. And I don't mean monetarily well, like by that time, it's not gonna matter, right? I'm not gonna be able to take it with me.
I really mean I feel satisfied with myself around what I did during this lifetime. And I can tell you, I already feel that like I'm a parent and I feel very both lucky and satisfied with the parenting and how that all worked out. And my earlier career, I felt really satisfied with that and didn't feel
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Right.
Lori Mazan (:Sad when I wrap that up after 20 years, I felt like the arc of that happened and it was like the perfect kind of thing. So I already feel fairly good, but I just feel like, hey, not done yet. I probably should be done, but I'm not done yet. I think it's gonna go on another 20, 30 years, I'm sure.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's awesome. As you wrap up this conversation, what are some key takeaways or insights you want our listeners to remember from our discussion today?
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
Lori Mazan (:Yeah.
couple one, just know it always does come back to yourself and who you are and what you're doing from the inside of yourself, regardless of what's happening outside. And a second might be that everybody on here just has amazing potential. Like I have never met one person.
who didn't have pretty incredible potential. And I rarely met people who were meeting all their potential. So everybody out there, you have amazing potential and you're not meeting it. So, hey, the third thing, get a coach, get a coach, get a mentor, get a pastor, get somebody who's gonna be able to help you see your potential and really utilize it for your own and everyone's good.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:That's great. Where can people find your book, Leadership Revolution, the Future of Developing Dynamic Leaders and learn more about you?
Lori Mazan (:Yeah, they can find it on any of the online of places like Amazon, Barnes and Noble. And you can also go to the website soundingboardinc .com. It'll tell you about the coaching company as well as have the access for the book. And we have a product on there that's for one on one coaching. If you're interested, you can look it up. It's called Accelerate.
And then you can always be in contact with me through LinkedIn at Lori Mazan, -A -Z -A -N. Surprisingly, I'm the only Lori Mazan on the planet.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:and you are unique.
Lori Mazan (:Yep, yep, as we all are.
of Becoming Bridge Builders (:Well, Lori, thanks so much for taking the time to be on the podcast and offering such great content and leadership. Blessings on your work and the book that you're working on and the way you're impacting people's lives by helping them to discover their unique self and to lead in a way that impacts not only themselves, but the world around them.
Lori Mazan (:Thank you.
Lori Mazan (:Yes, yes, thank you. A pleasure talking with you.
