Beyond the Wheelchair: Jenna Udenberg's Mission for Change

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:01:00

Welcome to Becoming Bridge Builders, the podcast where we bring together voices that are breaking down barriers and building bridges across communities, cultures, and causes. I am your host, Keith Haney. Today's guest is someone whose life and work embodies courage, creativity, and community.

Jenna Udeberg is a lifelong resident of Minnesota's North Shore, a former music educator of 19 years, and a passionate advocate for accessibility and inclusion.

platform for change. She's a: 2017

Through her column Local View from Four Foot two, and her memoir, Within My A Tapestry of Pain, Growth, and Freedom, Jenna invites readers into her world of vulnerability and insight. She's also the founder of above and beyond with you, a nonprofit working to increase accessibility and inclusion across Minnesota and beyond.

When she's not writing or advocating, you'll find her outdoors, fishing with friends, playing games, or coaching the Robo Deb's LEGO robotics team. Today, we'll explore Jenna's journey, her vision for a more inclusive world, and the bridges she's building every day. Jenna, welcome to the podcast.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:02:27

Thanks, Keith. How are you today?

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:02:30

I'm good. It's so good to have you on.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:02:32

Yeah, I'm excited for our conversation.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:02:34

I'm going to ask you my favorite go to question. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:02:41

Ooh, that's a good one.

I would say it was when I was writing my memoir, and it was from my coach, and she said, write the stories that you have the energy and the ability for in that day. So live out your life in the ways that you're experiencing it and also, like, embrace those spots. Right?

The good, the bad, the ugly, the hard, the mountaintops, the valleys, all those spaces.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:03:06

That's good advice. I like that. And how have you. So you've taken that and kind of applied it to the way you kind of move day to day, huh?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:03:17

Yeah, and I think I probably was already doing that, but sometimes it just really helps when others reflect that to, you know, they hold up that mirror and you. You look and go, oh, I live that out. Or, oh, I think that. Or that's my core value. Or that's how. That's how I want to live my life.

So, yeah, I appreciate when able others are able to do that for me.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:03:36

That's awesome. So can you share with us what life like, was like growing up with juvenile idiopathic arthritis.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:03:45

Yeah. So I was diagnosed when I was age 7.

That Reader's Digest version of it is family was out skating on a flooded rink in northern Minnesota and I had a fall. And so it took many different layers of getting diagnosed because Lyme's disease was fresh on the scene and a lot of the symptoms were very similar.

So I had a lot more.

I don't use this word lightly, but medical trauma in that process, I mean, cause little 7 year olds and back in the late 80s, the medical world was very different in our understanding of how to treat kids in the medical spaces than today. And so all those experiences just made me stronger and made me who I am. My disease cycle went very fast and very aggressive.

So I was in a manual wheelchair by age 8. So within like a year or less, I found myself not being able to walk any long distances because it attacked my knees. So that was the first thing.

And then it went to one ankle and then it went to the other hip. And I was kind of like this big game of Tetris and Jenga all at the same time with a little bit of Jumanji on top of it.

And so my doctors would be like, so A plus B equals C. That's what my doctor book tells me to do with you, whether it's medications or therapies or whatever.

And my body would spit it back out and be like, it is Q times the square root of R to the cube of S. Like it was just not having whatever they were giving me. Right. And back in the 80s, it was actually called juvenile rheumatoid arthritis.

And it wasn't until, to my knowledge, until about eight years ago, they changed it to juvenile idiopathic arthritis or just plain old juvenile arthritis. Cause they finally figured out that it didn't follow the rheumatoid disease progression, which I was like, Q times the square root of R to S cubed.

Could have told you that back in the 80s, but you know, so it was just different. Right? And when I think about it, I'm like, wow, I was disabled before the Americans with Disabilities act was even a law, was even a thing.

And so when I think back to my story and when I was writing my memoir, it was just became very apparent of like, it wasn't just cause I lived in rural Minnesota. It was because laws in society just hadn't caught up to the fact that children get arthritis too.

Children are in wheelchairs, children have disabilities. And so I found myself fighting labels and Words and assumptions at a very young age. And now I have that vocabulary. But when I was a child I didn't.

And so I tend to say I'm very thankful that I became disabled as a child, which a lot of people are like, what? And I'm like, but I don't know any different.

Like I have memories of running and walking and playing and having sleepovers and going to birthday parties and all the things a typical seven year old girl would know and going out hunting and fishing with family and you know, all the typical Minnesota things. But had that happened later on in life, I can understand why others that enter my community and culture have other struggles, different struggles.

Again, not to say that I didn't. It just kind of thankfully has been wiped from my memory in some ways. And in other ways it's become my platform.

It's become why I'm so passionate and, and advocacy and making life easier and more. The ability to thrive within community instead of being ostracized or secluded. Right.

We want to be included and being a part of all, all the things of life. So.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:07:27

Correct.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:07:27

Yeah.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:07:29

So I'm curious, as you think about, you talk about how it was good to have it as a child because you had a chance more time to kind of grow into that. How has that shaped your perspective in terms of helping other people deal with accessibility and inclusion?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:07:46

Yeah. You know, being honest and raw on an open book like I typically am, sometimes I do have to check my own bias. Cause I'm like, whatever, get over it.

Right.

It's like, oh wait, that's the seven, eight year old Jenna speaking, not the 45 year old Jenna that's going, oh yeah, if you could walk, run, do all these things, not be stuck in medical appointments four days a week till age 45. And then something happened like that compassion, that empathy, that understanding, that curiosity. Right. Is very, very different.

And there are just some things because of when my disability happened and because it's a slow progression. Right. Like I don't have the life experience of being typical. Being in a car accident, waking up the next day. And life has changed as you know it.

Mine was more of like I'm simmering in a pot of hot water and it just keeps getting hotter and hotter and hotter and then it gets cold for a while and now it gets hotter and hotter and hotter. Cause the arthritis and the medical world and all my other diagnoses just kind of have those cycles of mountains and valleys. So.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:08:57

Yeah, that's interesting. I'm curious what inspired you to write above and beyond with you.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:09:05

Oh, my memoir within my spokes. Yeah. Well, I've always been told since a young age that I needed to write a book.

And at that time, I was in my: 2020

And so I did a big pivot of what I thought my fellowship would be before the pandemic, and then a big pivot of once we learned what life was like during it. And then also for me, even though other Bush fellows got to kind of live out parts of their original plan, I wasn't. Cause I'm immunocompromised.

And that was my first time of experiencing invisible disabilities. And so that brought me to, all right, well, I've got all this time.

And Bush was like, hey, if you're learning how to write, the fellowship can definitely be used towards that. And so I was like, yeah, this is awesome. Like, I kind of know how to write. I'm kind of a wordsmith.

But learning about the whole publishing world was just flabbergasting because it was just like, you just have an idea, you write it out, you find somebody to put cover art, and it just appears on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all the places, right? Just like that magical thing. And it is so not. It's a lot of hard work.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:10:27

So.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:10:29

And like I said earlier, I've always been an open book. Probably sometimes a little bit too open if you talk to my family members. But, you know, that part of it wasn't necessarily hard.

Reliving a lot of the valleys, reliving my suicide ideation time, reliving my finding of my faith to be my own. Yes, during those times, it was hard to relive it. But for me, they have been wounds that are scars for so long. They're not open, gaping wounds.

And so it was just a different experience coming back and sharing those stories, getting permission from family and friends to share their names or share specific stories or being honorable to. To them, but then also being real about. Real and authentic about my story and about the struggles.

And a lot of times maybe about things that they never knew. Right. Because even your most intimate friends or family or partners or whatever, they still don't really know your inner workings.

And even for ourselves, right. Our Creator knows us much better than we even know ourselves. So I love that journey. I love being in the world of published authors.

I love being able to connect and encourage New authors, learning from more veteran authors. And so it's just powerful. And I believe that everybody's story needs to be shared.

And yet, after going through that process, now I really understand why people don't all go and publish 12 books each. Right? Like, one was a lot. I hope that there's some more brewing.

But, yeah, it was a great experience, and there's still great things happening from it. And it's super funny because in this process, I was given the word tapestry before I even wrote.

And I wasn't sure what that would mean and what that was about.

And so when it became a part of the subtitle, it's funny because friends that gave me permission to use their names, they had other friends, other family, other co workers read the book, and they're like, oh, Megan, I read your book. And she's like, what are you talking about? I didn't write a book. And she's like, oh, Jenna's book.

And I happen to be like, a chapter and a half, right? Yeah. Yeah, your book. Your book is really good. I didn't think about this or this or this.

And Megan's like, this isn't my book, but okay, you know, and so. And then there's other times I'm, you know, get emails from people or just talking to people on the street, and they're like, oh, yeah, this story.

Tell me more about it. And I'm like, oh, goodness, I shared that in the book. Oh.

Like, you know, when it's your labor of love for a whole year, and then you go through the editing process and all the things, you tend to kind of forget some of the aspects that are in it.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:13:30

So you talked about the difficulty of writing a book. What were some of the lessons you learned that other authors would learn from your journey of writing a book?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:13:38

Ah, great question. I would say to have compassion and grace for yourself.

And even though I appreciated the publishing space that I was going through and the training and the coaching, ultimately I had to listen to my own voice. I had to listen to my spirit about things. And I had to take about three months off. Cause I was just tired of hearing my own voice.

I was tired of my own story. I was tired of, you know, just all those scripts. Like, I needed other things, so being able to read other authors.

And that's when I fell in love with so many of the other disability activists that have gone before me, like Judy Heumann and Ed Roberts and, you know, like, just those big names that made a huge legacy and a huge change within My community and culture. Um, and for me, and this might seem odd, but I would rather read, like, youth novels.

And so I delved a lot into, like, middle school level books that were written with the main character being disabled. Right. Like, I didn't have that as a kid. There was no representation as a child, as a young adult, and even now as a middle aged woman. Right.

So I'd be like, I'm just gonna devour this book. And that helped me in my process to then be like, oh, let me look at my story maybe in a little different light. So that was very helpful.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:15:10

So have you thought about going back and writing in that space for young teens who were going through disabilities?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:15:18

Yeah, I would love to take within my spokes and find those spaces that maybe I didn't share more of myself and share those times, especially middle school. Like, that's where I found my faith.

That's where I went through a lot of just hard, struggling things that I think youth today can identify with whether they're disabled or not. Right.

And a part of me would also love to work with a couple different illustrators that I know and create a children's picture book to also, again, give hope and encouragement to kids that are just maybe not seeing themselves in their community or not seeing that they have a bright future and that there's a purpose and a plan for their life and for their disability.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:16:08

That's so critical.

I'm curious, since you're an advocate for people with disabilities, what challenges are you seeing in, like, even Minnesota today that are still really prevalent?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:16:21

Oh, yeah. You know, we're 35 years out from the Americans with Disability act being, you know, made into law.

But in all honesty, it was the greatest unfunded mandate the American government has ever put in place. And so, you know, even two weeks ago, I was in this new space that I love to go to in a community I love to go to, I should say.

nerstone on the building said: 2024

And just as I found the button, I also realized that the back of my wheel was like two inches from me going down the exterior cement stairs.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:17:02

Oh, no.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:17:04

And I was like, I am a 38 year veteran of being in a chair and I about did bad things to myself, like, what would a newer person in their chair due or whatever. And so that is just so frustrating. Right. Because it's like, you think, oh, just old buildings. They're not accessible.

They don't go above and beyond the Americans with Disabilities Act. And I think a lot of it is still, unfortunately, in some ways, just education. Right.

We believe that the code that comes with the ADA is the ceiling, when really it's the floor. Right. It's the use of words. Right.

Like, I personally, again, there might be other people in my community that like this word, but I cannot stand handicap anymore. I have never loved golf. I am not a golf term. I'm not gonna be like, hey, Keith, you're a birdie. How's birdie doing today?

You know, like, it just feels weird and odd and not. Not right. Right. For me, Again, other people might like it. For me, Not a big fan.

And so a lot of on podcasts and in other spaces, my biggest thing is disability is not a bad word. So let's just use it. Let's call it what it is. And a lot of times I use my education as a background of. So kindergartners.

Well, probably preschoolers now, right? Like, this is a red crayon. This is a blue crayon. This is an orange crayon. No one is better than the other.

No one is inherently good, and one is inherently bad. It's just red. It's blue, it's orange. They're crayons. You color with them. You make art. You show your creativity.

And so, again, like, sometimes we need labels to learn. Right. Jenna uses a manual wheelchair. Awesome. Jenna is disabled. Awesome. Jenna has medical constraints. Awesome. Jenna loves music. Awesome.

Jenna's a trumpet player. Awesome. Like, how about we just say, Jenna is Jenna.

And yet I also understand that at times, like, if you and I wanted to go get coffee, you would have to know Jenna's in a wheelchair. The coffee shop needs to meet XYZ needs. Right?

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:19:12

Right.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:19:12

Hopefully, someday we won't have to think about that. You and I can go anywhere, whether we're handicapping Birdie or, you know, like, we can just go and be and do like anyone else.

And so, again, words matter. We need to flip the scripts, and we just have to have curious, honest conversations.

Knowing that, especially in my space, like, for listeners, I just want to say, like, coming to me as a veteran and knowing that I'm an open book and that I'm a published author and that I lead a nonprofit, can probably guarantee you can come and have an honest conversation with me and ask hard questions. Right? Going up to any random stranger that you have no idea about in Target or at A coffee shop or wherever and be like, hey, what's wrong with you?

Hmm? Let's not do that. Right? Not. Okay.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:07

Probably not. Probably not the best way to go.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:20:09

Hey, by the way, I see you're in a chair. Do you know so and so from Philadelphia? That's in a chair.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:14

That's also in a chair.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:20:15

Right, right. Like, let's not.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:20

Do you have like a chair club? Yeah. No. You get that when you're.

When you're either minority or have disability, people, like, well, you must know so and so they also have this disease. Like, they don't.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:20:31

Right.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:32

Like, everybody know everybody from Louisiana. I don't know everybody from Louisiana. I do not.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:20:36

Right. And then sometimes I just need to flip it and be like, so do you know all the people with orange shoes?

Or like something that you know is identifying them. Like, so that other person over there with glasses, what's their deal? You know?

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:50

Yeah, exactly.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:20:50

For sure.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:20:51

It's like being tall. It's funny. People always ask me, did you play basketball? So, you know, I got tired of hearing that one. So I was with a short person.

I'm like, so did you play miniature golf? I mean, do we just like, make assumptions?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:21:03

Right? And. And a lot of that is right, Like a. It's human nature, right? So we can have forgiveness and grace and make fun of it or laugh together with it.

But then on the flip side too, it's like, well, but it's our uncomfortability, right? It's because we see difference and we don't know how to work across difference.

Or we don't know how to say that or even just acknowledge that in our own head of like, I'm uncomfortable right now. Cause I've never lived the life of whoever's in front of me or whatever difference my brain is picking up on.

And a lot of times it happens unconsciously. But then you're making that conscious decision to say something stupid or do something stupid or not do something that you should be doing.

Right, Right, Exactly. We're a hot mess. We're just not.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:21:52

We are a hot mess. But I like what you said, though. I think it's about having the grace to know that sometimes it's an honest, uncomfortable conversation.

And I always try to approach people who ask questions, sometimes out of curiosity, with that level of grace, so that they don't feel.

Cause I think it's an opportunity for us who are in that space, whatever side of the coin we are, to respond with grace so that people don't shut down in the future and isolate someone else. So if you have that ability to have grace and show grace and mercy, it can go a long way toward opening up further conversations with other people.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:22:31

Yep. And I think the educator in me will never die. Right. Like, when I went through my big identity crisis, I was like, I'm no longer an educator.

But then when I was given accessibility educator as new verbiage for me, it was like, oh, yeah, this is why my work stands out and is different and why my nonprofit is different. Because we're all connected to the education world in some ways, and we just come at it with a different perspective. Right.

But then there are times when I'm like, I am not your educator. Right. Like, thank you. Nothing for us, without us. That's a huge thing in disability culture.

But in the same respect, it's like, go Google it and then go have an honest conversation with an actual disabled person about what you googled and learned. But I don't need to be your first step into.

And then I try to remind myself of that because of my privilege and be like, oh, yeah, it's not your job, Keith, to teach me about X, Y, Z of your culture that you represent. Right. Like, I should do some of my own googling and my own research and then be like, so I just have a dumb question. Maybe it's not dumb, but I'm.

I'm curious.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:23:42

Right?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:23:43

Right.

And if you don't feel comfortable, and that's what I'm trying to learn and also put into my vocabulary bucket, every day is like, I have a curious question. But if now's not the time or it's not appropriate or you don't feel comfortable with it, you can go tell me to go butter my pancakes. Right.

Like, we're cool with that. And I get the point. Right. Because there are just times. And even just because I'm an educator doesn't mean I always want to be educating.

Like, figure it out, have conversations. Yeah.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:24:14

So tell us about your nonprofit you've mentioned a couple of times. Tell us about why you started and tell us what you tried to do.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:24:20

Yeah. So above and beyond with you has been a dream for a long time. Again, you know, being an educator, I'm like, how can I use my summers?

Like, I wanna go and tour the North Shore of Minnesota, or I wanna go explore a different state, or I wanna go explore this area, but I don't have the funds. Right. As an educator at that time, to go and use personal investments. And so I was like, there's gotta be some way of making this all happen.

Well, then of course, the Internet exploded, social media content, people became. And I was like, oh, okay. And I was like, so you can make that happen. You can do those things. And again, I'm like, that doesn't feel true to Jenna.

Like, I'm wanting to be in spaces, help educate and make some change. Right? So I was like, how do we do this?

And then like I said earlier with, you know, Ada being an awesome thing and yet unfunded, especially being a rural person, it was like all these mom and pop places, they have no ability to put a ramp in. They have no ability to financially reconstruct a whole bathroom.

And so even though above and beyond with youh isn't at that financial spot yet where we want to be, you know, in another couple of years, I hope in current situations in our society, I have a little less hope.

But I would love to get to that point of how can we come alongside local business, local industry, help you make your things accessible then for promote. Because so often people believe that, you know, disability community means that you're poor or you're below poverty.

And yes, there is a huge part of our community that is in those spaces. I've been there before in my journey. That needs to change 100%. And yet there's also the other side of that coin of there are people that aren't.

There are rich people who are disabled. There are tons of different definitions, labels, abilities that come within disability culture. And disability is just a part of the natural process.

So as our baby boomers, as our aging population start inheriting all those natural disability types and experiences, the world around us is going to change, and rightfully so, and hopefully quicker than it has in the last 35 years. But so again, above and beyond stands for going above and beyond the code.

t's not have a cornerstone of: 2024

So we can go above code. We can do beyond what these things say. And the with you is we believe in being with them. Like we're making relationships.

This isn't just like a, hey, hire us to consult you. Hey, hire us to come and do a wheel through assessment. But like, no, we're in this for the long haul. Like, let's live life together.

Let's make this better. And then the U, Capital U is a nod to my last name. Cause little kindergartners couldn't say Udenberg. Adults can't. I sometimes even can't. So.

And if they did get it out, I would already be like down the hall and around the corner and I went to your little five year old, you know, Ms. Hootenberg. And then, you know, tears and all the bad things. So the kids early on in my career changed my name to Miss you.

And so it's just a nod to accessibility education and that, that we're together.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:27:57

That's awesome. You also have a column, local view from 4 foot 2. Tell us about what inspired you to start that.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:28:07

Yeah, so our community had a chronicle when I was a kid and I thought that was cool. I was an editor for our high school newspaper back in the day. And then, you know, rural newspapers just kind of dried up for a while.

But then an awesome lady came into her own within our community and said, let's do this thing. And so she became the editor and she is an ally and also a caregiver of somebody with a disability.

And so she's like, hey, do you want to write a column? I don't know what this means. I don't know what it's going to look like.

But I want your voice, I want your stories, I want your perspective and I value this. And so what do you think? I was like oof weekly doing all the things. That's a lot. How about every other week?

You know, and it's just been amazing because every, I would say almost every week when I'm out in the community, people will stop me and of course they know who I am, but I have absolutely no idea who they are. Right. Sometimes I do, but more often than not. But they just, you know, share. They're just encouraging of.

Hey, you shared this story about this waterfall. I didn't know at my age that I could traverse out to this local waterfall and see it.

That there's a bench there or that there's this or that or I didn't know that I was kind of self sabotaging in the words that I was using about myself or about the condition that I'm now finding myself in. And so that just keeps you fueling the fire to do this work. And again, you know, I'll be honest that sometimes I get tired of my own perspective.

I get tired of my own voice, my own story.

And so I love when other people are able to share their stories and their experiences around accessibility, around the good and the bad and the things that are locally important to us and also globally and societally that's so cool.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:30:23

So tell us again, who do you hope reads within my spokes, and how do you hope this impacts them?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:30:31

I would hope that anybody that has curiosity of someone else's lived life would read it. I hope that they would share it. I hope that they would review it. Right. It's all about the different algorithms and sharing that work.

And again, in this work, like, yes, I'm being the mouthpiece currently. I'm being the face to it currently. But it's not just my story. Right. It's our story as a community, it's our story as a society.

And all of the funds that come from the book sales go directly into the work of above and beyond with you. So making spaces and people more accessible, more human, more understanding, and doing better because we know better.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:31:20

Awesome. I'm gonna ask you my other favorite question. What do you want your legacy to be?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:31:26

Oh, I loved seeing this one.

I think it boils down to, you know, my parents always instilled a good work ethic in us kids, and it was always, leave a space better when you leave it than how you found it. And in the last couple years of this work, I've really changed my mission to be not only for spaces, but for people.

I want people to be better, more healthy, more loved, more full of laughter and joy after we've spent time together than how I found them. And what's awesome is when they also do that in return for me.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:32:09

That's great. So in season six of the podcast, we do something special. Now, it's a surprise question. Pick a number between 1 and 10 for your surprise question.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:32:19

Ooh, number 7. The most complete number. How about that?

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:32:24

That's a very, very biblical question. Thought about that. Okay. If you could look at through one person's email without them knowing it, whose email would you look through?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:32:36

Interesting. Hmm. I think I would go to the mother of disability advocacy, which is Judith Heumann.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:32:52

Okay.

Jenna Udenberg: 00:32:54

Because she would have lots of people reaching out to her for wisdom and other just random stories because she was just a real deal. A real deal Jewish woman who lived a lot of life. And. Yeah, I think that'd be kind of fun to see.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:33:10

That's neat. So give us your contact. Where can people find you on social media? Where can they buy your book? And where can they find out about your nonprofit?

Jenna Udenberg: 00:33:19

Yeah.

So above and beyond with youh CapitalYou.org is our website, and there's links there to buy the book through Amazon or wherever you purchase your books. Also, my audiobook should be coming out soon, so hopefully that will be out when the show drops.

You can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook and we just look forward to hearing from folks and connecting and doing even more work together.

Rev. Dr. Keith Haney: 00:33:47

Well, thank you so much. Jenna reminds us that strength isn't always loud, it can be seated, steady and full of grace.

Her story is a testament to the power of lived experience and her work is paving the way for a more inclusive, compassionate world. Thank you Jenna for being a bridge builder and sharing your journey with us.

We welcome you to follow Jenna and pick up her book and donate to her contribution or her charity if you think that's a place for you. So keep living the life and keep building bridges.